Amos

The reference is used to distinguish between breadcrumbs as deeds of righteousness and stones as sacraments.

In the "Emperor Jones" O'Neill thinks that the wolves will get these breadcrumbs because they know where we placed them. He thinks that feeding wolves is a bad idea because they always want more and the more we give the more we will be freightened by them.

I should have added that he tried to hide them under rocks but since he could never find them when needed he figured that the wolves must have ate them.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Sojourner553

Of course rock-turning over is a choice. But why is this not the optimum choice as rational beings?

As the late Carl Sagan put it:

BTW: How's Sparky doing these days?

Sojourner

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]</p>

NOGO

It is a choice to people who like to live in delusion.

Versica, you can only speak for yourself.

I hope that you and Sparky will have a nice life together.

Vesica

Thank you for the verbal 'pat-on-the-head' NOGO...All I was saying is that I have never met a person who has turned over every single rock they could, which forces me to conclude that you too may have at least one little rock that isn't worth the effort...We all decide which ones are important and which aren't. If we had other people decide that for us, I think the world would be a much scarier place.

NOGO

To think that some people like Bede speak as though Christian fundamentalism is a 20th century novelty.

Sojourner553

Seems to me some people don't want to look under the BIG rocks, (nevermind the little ones)!!!

Sojourner

[ November 25, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]

[ November 25, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]</p>

Sojourner553

E'suse me Vesica:

But how do you know there isn't a giant boulder lurking under one of those leetle bitty rocks, unless you pick them up and peek under 'em all...

Sojourner

Vesica

Sojourner553 -

You don't. That doesn't keep me awake at night as I am sure whatever unturned pebbles you have don't trouble you or you would turn them over.

Sojourner553

Pebbles, or rocks or boulders? A giant boulder could look like a pebble on the surface if buried deep in the ground.

What size must they be before you turn one over?

Of course, I may not be smart enough to recognize all the rocks (or pebbles or boulders) out in front of me. But I feel it is my duty as a rational being to look under all the rocks I do stumble across with the best of my abilities.

I remember when I first began reading critiques of the Bible that seriously questioned its validity: My eyes opened in alarm and there was a dialogue within myself asking whether I should just close the book and stop thinking about it.

"No," I responded, "I want to know the truth -- the real truth, no matter where it takes me."

Have I regretted the decision? I was disappointed to find out I won't be an eternal angel afterall. But I haven't miss the inner conflict from wondering why God "allows" so much evil in the world.

Surprisingly, the latter was the most troubling for me (or to use your metaphor: caused more sleepless nights) -- although I found this bothered me at a subconscious level, than conscious level. [How do I know this? When I made the decision the Bible was based on superstition, I felt a deep sigh of relief that God wan't purposely hurting people afterall. I was surprised to realize I had burried this thought within me-- although it was very much present -- but not at a conscious level.]

In all, I sleep better/am secure from knowing I am honest in my pursuit of truth, wherever it takes me.

And yes, I will look under the pebbles too, especially if I think there might be something important underneath them.

Sojourner

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]</p>

Vesica

I was simply calling into question the unspoken conclusion that anyone who has really thought about it would reject religion therefore since they believe they must be in denial. No one logics out everything in thier lives nor do I think there is some moral imperative for them to...Part of free thought/speech is the choice not to do either.

Personally I have thought about it and based on my personal experience still chose to believe...though not a form of belief practiced by many other X-ians. Why do I not trot out my reasons everytime the subject comes up? Bluntly, because it isn't the business of anyone on this forum. Unless the forum specifically states that one's personal religious leanings color everything they post here, it simply is not relevant. In the context of this thread, my 3 history courses on Medieval Europe and the Middle East are the basis for my posts about the European witch trials and the Inquisition. Based on the first hand historical accounts, I can not conlcude that these events were driven entirely by religon or the church. They are more complicated that that simplistic reasoning.