Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 07-10-2002, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by St. Robert:
HelenSL,

Why wouldn't God want to heal you?

I don't know *shrugs*; I was just going on the evidence of lots of other Christians being unhealed, who've prayed for healing and who I don't think are doing anything obviously to stand in the way of God healing them. So it seems to me He doesn't always want to heal people; that we can't assume He does, given the evidence.

God does not want you to suffer. He does want to heal you. From God's perspective, spiritual health is more valuable than physical health.

I don't understand - are you saying my diagnosis is purely spiritual? It's partly hereditary and a matter of brain chemistry...doesn't that make it at least partly physical?

On an eternal spectrum, what good would it do a person to be healthy in the body and be unhealthy in the spirit?

I understand your point but I'm not sure how it relates to my illness?

For the Christian, a bodily death is actually the best cure for a destructive illness like cancer or AIDS. If Christians believe that they receive a new body after they die, why wouldn't they prefer that God heal them of their terminal illness by allowing them to die? Death becomes the answer to the Christian's prayer for healing.

Isn't all illness destructive? How do we know which illnesses God is going to 'cure' by death and which ones He will cure by restoring the person physically? Since He has power to miraculously cure cancer then why let the person die, if - based on your comments - He wants to heal?

My wife was also diagnosed with bipolar disorder several years ago. She would credit Jesus for healing her by faith.

I'm happy for her that she's better.

Perhaps a better way to describe the 'weary and burdened' is 'all who seek healing'.

It's still not what the text says, though. Are you now implying that I'm not seeking healing because of my lack of faith that God wants to heal me?

love
Helen

Panta Pei · 07-10-2002, 04:47 PM

St. Robert:

Credat Iudaeus Apella, non ego.

ad tristem partem stenua est suspicio.

Helen:

Perseverate et pugna.

You are more true than this pretender.

Would you really offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?

HelenM · 07-10-2002, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panta Pei:
Helen:
Would you really offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?

On a hot summer's night, you mean?

love
Helen

Queen of Swords · 07-10-2002, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by St. Robert:

For the Christian, a bodily death is actually the best cure for a destructive illness like cancer or AIDS. 

So... a Christian should refuse chemotherapy and antibiotics?

Captain Pedantic · 07-11-2002, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords:
Originally posted by St. Robert:
[qb]
For the Christian, a bodily death is actually the best cure for a destructive illness like cancer or AIDS. 

So... a Christian should refuse chemotherapy and antibiotics?[/QB]

I am suddenly reminded of a doccumentary I saw not long ago, which featured three people who were dying of cancer.

One of these people was an elderly lady who was devoutly Catholic and (apparently)sincerely believed she would be going to heaven.

Yet she still chose to attempt three courses of chemo (even thought they made her suffering much worse)than face succumbing to the cancer.

A doctor remarked how odd it was that a woman so devoutly religious so desparately wanted to keep from dying when she sincerely believed she was going to heaven.

Bree · 07-11-2002, 07:55 AM

Sorry for breaking in on this conversation, but I can't believe we're listening to someone recommend an outdated (read: medi-evil) medical method: healing through faith.

The notion that disease (no matter what form) is actually curable just by sitting on your ass simply astounds me.

St. Robert · 07-11-2002, 01:06 PM

HelenSL,

Yes, of course. Bipolar disorder is a physical illness. One that may never be fully healed during your lifetime. God doesn't 'pick and chose' to heal or not heal people of their physical illnesses based on their amount of faith in Him. God heals millions of people that have absolutely no faith in Him or wish to give Him the slightest acknowledgement for being healed by Him. Although it may not always heal the body, faith in Jesus Christ always heals the spirit. Like I said in my previous message, God deals primarily in the spirit, not in the flesh. It is a false assumption that just because God doesn't heal everyone of their bodily illnesses that He doesn't want to heal them where it counts eternally - in the spirit. If any Christian tells you that God isn't healing you of clinical depression, because you don't have enough faith in Jesus then they are a liar and need to be rebuked as such for spreading a false testimony about God.

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing." - Jesus Christ (John 6:63)

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]

HelenM · 07-11-2002, 02:13 PM

St Robert

I'm not quite sure what you're telling me, at this point...how much relief can I expect from God and how do I obtain it?

love
Helen

St. Robert · 07-11-2002, 04:54 PM

I can't answer the first part of your question. Only the heavenly Father knows what you can expect from Him specifically. You can expect God to be faithful to those who are faithful. He doesn't give people everything they wish or desire, because he wants us to trust HIS agenda for our lives and not our own agendas.

Continue to ask for healing. Ask other believers in Jesus to pray for you. Seek a faith healing ministry and have them lay hands on your head and pray for you.

I believe He will heal you of clinical depression.

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]

Thor Q. Mada · 07-11-2002, 05:00 PM

This is getting out off hand. St. Robert, have you ever tried Prosac?? You seem to be needing it.

07-10-2002, 07:56 PM	#94
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by St. Robert: <strong> For the Christian, a bodily death is actually the best cure for a destructive illness like cancer or AIDS. </strong> So... a Christian should refuse chemotherapy and antibiotics?

07-11-2002, 01:06 PM	#97
St. Robert Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 170	HelenSL, Yes, of course. Bipolar disorder is a physical illness. One that may never be fully healed during your lifetime. God doesn't 'pick and chose' to heal or not heal people of their physical illnesses based on their amount of faith in Him. God heals millions of people that have absolutely no faith in Him or wish to give Him the slightest acknowledgement for being healed by Him. Although it may not always heal the body, faith in Jesus Christ always heals the spirit. Like I said in my previous message, God deals primarily in the spirit, not in the flesh. It is a false assumption that just because God doesn't heal everyone of their bodily illnesses that He doesn't want to heal them where it counts eternally - in the spirit. If any Christian tells you that God isn't healing you of clinical depression, because you don't have enough faith in Jesus then they are a liar and need to be rebuked as such for spreading a false testimony about God. "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing." - Jesus Christ (John 6:63) [ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ] [ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

07-11-2002, 04:54 PM	#99
St. Robert Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 170	I can't answer the first part of your question. Only the heavenly Father knows what you can expect from Him specifically. You can expect God to be faithful to those who are faithful. He doesn't give people everything they wish or desire, because he wants us to trust HIS agenda for our lives and not our own agendas. Continue to ask for healing. Ask other believers in Jesus to pray for you. Seek a faith healing ministry and have them lay hands on your head and pray for you. I believe He will heal you of clinical depression. [ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ] [ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

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07-10-2002, 02:10 PM	#91
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	Originally posted by St. Robert: HelenSL, Why wouldn't God want to heal you? I don't know shrugs; I was just going on the evidence of lots of other Christians being unhealed, who've prayed for healing and who I don't think are doing anything obviously to stand in the way of God healing them. So it seems to me He doesn't always want to heal people; that we can't assume He does, given the evidence. God does not want you to suffer. He does want to heal you. From God's perspective, spiritual health is more valuable than physical health. I don't understand - are you saying my diagnosis is purely spiritual? It's partly hereditary and a matter of brain chemistry...doesn't that make it at least partly physical? On an eternal spectrum, what good would it do a person to be healthy in the body and be unhealthy in the spirit? I understand your point but I'm not sure how it relates to my illness? For the Christian, a bodily death is actually the best cure for a destructive illness like cancer or AIDS. If Christians believe that they receive a new body after they die, why wouldn't they prefer that God heal them of their terminal illness by allowing them to die? Death becomes the answer to the Christian's prayer for healing. Isn't all illness destructive? How do we know which illnesses God is going to 'cure' by death and which ones He will cure by restoring the person physically? Since He has power to miraculously cure cancer then why let the person die, if - based on your comments - He wants to heal? My wife was also diagnosed with bipolar disorder several years ago. She would credit Jesus for healing her by faith. I'm happy for her that she's better. Perhaps a better way to describe the 'weary and burdened' is 'all who seek healing'. It's still not what the text says, though. Are you now implying that I'm not seeking healing because of my lack of faith that God wants to heal me? love Helen

07-10-2002, 04:47 PM	#92
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	St. Robert: Credat Iudaeus Apella, non ego. ad tristem partem stenua est suspicio. Helen: Perseverate et pugna. You are more true than this pretender. Would you really offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?

07-11-2002, 07:55 AM	#96
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Sorry for breaking in on this conversation, but I can't believe we're listening to someone recommend an outdated (read: medi-evil) medical method: healing through faith. The notion that disease (no matter what form) is actually curable just by sitting on your ass simply astounds me.

07-11-2002, 02:13 PM	#98
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	St Robert I'm not quite sure what you're telling me, at this point...how much relief can I expect from God and how do I obtain it? love Helen

07-11-2002, 05:00 PM	#100
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	This is getting out off hand. St. Robert, have you ever tried Prosac?? You seem to be needing it.

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