galiel

I wish all those who insist that there is no problem, that atheists are not oppressed, and that CSS is not the problem, we all just need to be nice little atheists and wait to be loved, would read and post in these topics....

chiron64

I actually posted my original message to let off steam, but I thank you all for your suggestions. I will try to muster up the courage to act, but I find no comfort in the fact that I will be alone in this. I live in a small city in Texas and I honestly believe that I'm the only atheist in town. To make matters worse, we've had an air force base here since the end of WWII and a large percentage of teachers are either former military or the spouses of former military. They talk about the pledge and the flag as though they were ready to die (or kill) to keep it. Anyway, thanks again.

Alonzo Fyfe

Strangely, the school where I was beaten almost daily on the playground for the crime of atheism, while the teachers who witnessed it did nothing (I have no idea what they said in the teacher's lounge), was a town with an air force base since WWII.

So, I am familiar with that type of environment.

And I certainly have no reverence for the concept of being a martyr.

Please note that the issue is not whether to keep or throw out the Pledge. It is whether to keep or throw out the words 'under God'. It is fundamentalist demagogery that is trying to throw sentiment off of the real issue -- employing the now-conventional tactic of confusing a defense of religious freedom with being anti-American.

Though that fact may not make much difference to your co-workers.

I, for one, have no qualms against anonymous action. I find no logic to the claim that "1 + 1 = 2 only if spoken by somebody who is willing to identify himself."

So, again, I encourage you to mail a copy of the letter that I wrote above to (all of/some of) the teachers at your school, including yourself -- anonymously -- just as a way of saying something.

Or just leave a few copies about where others can find them.

And while they talk about it, this may reveal one or two people who think as you do.

gilly54

You might also attach a copy of the beautifully worded post by Alonzo's dad, a patriotic veteran, after getting permission of course.

Here: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000581&p=" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000581&p=</a>


Gilly

4th Generation Atheist

Alonzo, you and I have much in common....I've no idea what was said in the teachers' lounge at my school either, just that around March or so of the relevant year a teacher (not mine) called my parents to say she'd seen incidents at the school that made her fear for my physical safety. My parents knew about all the black eyes and fat lips and such, but this lady gave them cause to fear I'd end up in Intensive Care. Sounds like you had a similar story.

And they say the undergod thing isn't coercive. Damn it, thos fundies know perfectly well what they're doing! <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: 4th Generation Atheist ]</p>

Alonzo Fyfe

Yes, they do. Some of them see it -- they cannot help but know; and I am certain others who do not see it are able to still draw the relevant conclusions.

I equate the situation to Hitler having Jews wear a yellow Star of David. Use the Pledge in order to force these people to conspicuously identify themselves, combine this with some government propaganda that they are second-rate citizens, and then allowing private vengeance to have unrestrained access to the victims.

It's the same tactic.

Grumpy

If you thought Americans were weeping on 9/11, just wait until 9/13!

(Note: please don't call the cops.)