dk

MORTICIAN Assisted Suicide

keyser_soze

Hey, mechanic assisted suicide, as long as it gets the job done! Janitorial even! I could care less who presses the button, as long as the patient has left such wishes or is cognizant of the situation. What gives you the right to be judge over another person's life choices? A book? Seriously, what do you see as the problem with relieving the suffering of someone? Please, be detailed as possible, I promise to try and address your argument. But don't come at it from the holy bible, because your god has no more substantiation than any other religion, no more merit, and certainly no more rational content! Give me the REASONS that it is wrong to assist another human being from suffering an excrutiating death?

winstonjen

My thoughts exactly. The only logical reason to oppose it is to prevent abuse - not everyone wants palliative care or to linger on. And it is proven that abuses are much more prevalent where euthanasia is ILLEGAL than where it is legal. That is why 99% of all anti- arguments are irrational and emotional.

dk

Seriously, everybody suffers so to rationalize doctor assisted suicide as a cure for suffering lacks integrity, discernment and dignity. Many 18 year olds suffer depression and are locked up as a danger to themselves and forced to live. Its irrational to swap judgment for suffering.

keyser_soze

I don't see the line. I'm not suggesting a depressed person be put up for this, they can do it on their own...But someone who's suffering through pancreatic cancer(a terribly painful way to go, but by far not the worst)...

No herrings and straw men in this thread please. Just a clear argument if you please.

dk

Pain whether due to a physical or emotional cause is very personal and subjective, hence very difficult to discribe much less quantify. On the plus side pain treatment has become increasingly sophisticated, varied and effective. Feeding someone and treating pain isn't extraordinary or expensive but humane. I don't see a problem.

keyser_soze

Yeah, I was just saying the other day...As I walked by the nurses desk where they were all cringing because this ladies screams were freaking driving everyone insane...I remember thinking, yep, that's a "good" kind of scream. Obviously pain free. I bet you didn't know that you can give what would be a lethal dose of morphine(or contin) to a patient, and it won't harm them...so long as the pain outstrips the abilities of the morphine. Did you know that? There's pain that you can't touch with medication, short of unconciousness, which the pain usually pushes them to at some point. Imagine that though, a dose of morphine that could kill two adults, won't even faze a lady who is shrieking in pain from the cancer eating her up. Yeah, I was just thinking that pain killers have come such a long way. Why, it was over a hundred years ago that crude barbarians practicing medicine used to give....what was it? Oh yes, they gave MORPHINE to kill the pain of wounded soldiers. Oh my yes, it's getting to where it's the next best thing to a vacation, dying these days. I know I'd just as soon suffer for a good six weeks in agonizing pain, getting lethal doses of pain killer, that barely keep up with the agony. Yep...

I swear, it's like the most opinionated people out there never seem to go out into the world. Go visit a cancer clinic amigo. Better yet, go visit a smokers ward. That's the good shit right there. That's the kind of suffering you gotta pay to see. Nothing like someone coughing up pieces of themselves, while exuding tar from their skin...The painkillers work on them, but then again, drowning in your own organs and fluid, while being slowly deprived of air until your body gives up...after weeks...well, that's just about the most dignified way to go. Isn't it? Works for you does it?

Loren Pechtel

1) Being as liberal with the pain meds for a terminal patient as is needed for pain control risks having the DEA come down on you.

2) Pain control at the level needed to deal with cancer pain can easily drive one to the edge of conciousness. What quality of life exists when someone doesn't even recognize a family member standing beside the bed?

3) So what if pain is subjective? When dealing with terminal patients, addiction is a non-issue. Use as much morphine as they want.

4) Until you've seen someone die of something like cancer I don't think you're qualified to say there's no justification.

winstonjen

I agree. Isn't all pain subjective? Therefore, it should be up to the one experiencing the pain to decide the course of action. And if morphine is inadequate, other methods like medical marijuana should be considered.

dk

keyser_soze: Yeah, I was just saying the other day...As I walked by the nurses desk where they were all cringing because this ladies screams were freaking driving everyone insane...I remember thinking, yep, that's a "good" kind of scream. Obviously pain free.
dk: Good point, I was on a roller coaster and heard people scream with delight. It’s utterly ridiculous to associate a scream with pain, because most people scream from surprise/freight not pain.
keyser_soze: I bet you didn't know that you can give what would be a lethal dose of morphine(or contin) to a patient, and it won't harm them...so long as the pain outstrips the abilities of the morphine. Did you know that?
dk: So do you recommend pain as a treatment for morphine?… And isn’t that analogous to a prescription of death as a treatment for pain.
keyser_soze: There's pain that you can't touch with medication, short of unconsciousness, which the pain usually pushes them to at some point. Imagine that though, a dose of morphine that could kill two adults, won't even faze a lady who is shrieking in pain from the cancer eating her up.
dk: If you read about the science of pain management its chronic pain that’s most commonly mistreated, not because it is untreatable but misdiagnosed. Many health care workers wrongly believe pain is accompanied by shrieks of pain, which is blatantly false.
keyser_soze: Yeah, I was just thinking that pain killers have come such a long way. Why, it was over a hundred years ago that crude barbarians practicing medicine used to give....what was it? Oh yes, they gave MORPHINE to kill the pain of wounded soldiers. Oh my yes, it's getting to where it's the next best thing to a vacation, dying these days. I know I'd just as soon suffer for a good six weeks in agonizing pain, getting lethal doses of pain killer, that barely keep up with the agony. Yep...
dk: All your demonstrating is your own ignorance. Opiates are effect but today pain can be treated locally, generally, surgically, neural pathways, or at the brain. Today pain can be treated when properly diagnosed, so the problem isn’t pain but diagnosis.
keyser_soze: I swear, it's like the most opinionated people out there never seem to go out into the world. Go visit a cancer clinic amigo. Better yet, go visit a smokers ward. That's the good shit right there. That's the kind of suffering you gotta pay to see. Nothing like someone coughing up pieces of themselves, while exuding tar from their skin...The painkillers work on them, but then again, drowning in your own organs and fluid, while being slowly deprived of air until your body gives up...after weeks...well, that's just about the most dignified way to go. Isn't it? Works for you does it?
dk: I probably have more cancer in my family than you have relatives, my mother and two grandparents died of cancer, and my sister is a Doctor, who managed their pain in the final days of life. I know the drill up close and personal. Pain is manageable, its chronic pain that’s problematic and you’re full of beans.