luvluv

Yes and no.

I mean I don't think there's anything wrong with noticing that someone is attractive or wanting to be seen as attractive. I think it is a matter of degree: when women start to think that their purpose is to be attractive and when men start to think of women primarily as various pieces of sexual equipment. I think to whatever degree your self-concept is dependant on your looks is probably unhealthy. To be attractive should be the icing on the cake, not the whole cake.

But I do distinguish between the desire for one's beauty to be appreciated and the desire to attract sexual attention. One does not necessarily imply the other and one can attract one without attracting the other. I've known plenty of women who I thought were beautiful but who did not inspire in me an immediate desire to jump into bed with them. I often felt guilty with these women when I did indulge any kind of sexual thoughts about them because it seemed to degrade this quality of beauty I found within them. There were other girls who seemed to present themselves as if they maintained the expectation that everyone who saw them should be having sexual thoughts about them. The latter I think is wrong, it gives the observer a wrong opiinion about the woman and the woman the wrong opinion of herself.

Thanks for inviting me back to the thread.

Amen-Moses

Originally posted by Bree:
The company has not yet provided me with a good reason as to why I'm paid less than the middle-aged man who held the position previously. To tell the truth, I'm not wanting the money - the prestige and the possibilities of promotion are enough for me.

[b]Are you middle aged?

I have just left IBM and at my age I was earning sometimes as much as double the salary of younger colleagues doing the same job and many of my female colleagues earned a damn site more. For example one woman of exactly the same age as me earned about a 1000 dollars a month more than me for exactly the same work at the same grade purely because she had 15 years with the company whereas I only had 7.</b>

Amen-Moses

MadMordigan

I've known plenty of women who I thought were beautiful but who did not inspire in me an immediate desire to jump into bed with them.

Every once in a while I read a comment that makes me think I'm an alien visiting another planet. I've seen ugly girls who inspired an immediate desire to jump into bed with them. Hell, I think about jumping into bed with women I've never even seen. I can't imagine how someone could convince themselves to feel GUILTY about that.

Viti

Yes, MM, you are an alien in ChristianGuiltLand. Guilt is self imposed, highly destructive and should be avoided at all times IMO.

Of course I hope I am included in the women you wish to bed or I will feel left out and make you feel guilty

luvluv

The only common example I can think of is Meg Ryan. Shes definitely prettier than the average woman you'd see on the street, but you wouldn't immediately think of throwing her into the sack. There's certain women who have that quality.

In fact, I've had that experience with just about every woman I've ever been in love with. The purely sexual feelings came later. They were all beautiful but I was so enthralled with them, that I wasn't really thinking about sex until later.

Viti

Meg Ryan...very pretty...but I find her personality little-girl cutesy. Maybe that's why she doesn't inspire sexual thoughts (hubby says the same thing...she is not sexy). So do you then see how someone like Angelina Jolie almost always inspire sexual thoughts (even in women!) even if she is dressed in a business suit.

Thanks luvluv for the insight, I understand this particular opinion of yours based on this example.

Amen-Moses

Oh bugger, now I need a cold shower.

Amen-Moses

Bree

Should it matter?

I thought it was "equal pay for equal work" - if I'm deemed qualified (trial by fire) to do the job, then I should get the same amount of money as someone doing the EXACT SAME JOB. I am more qualified than the guy who did the job before, despite my supposed youth - hell, UPS offered to pay me to go to law school for them, once I finish my other degree.

So, I suppose you'd be happy if some guy who was 30 years older than you simply was promoted over you and started doing your job for more money? I don't think so. I'm always astounded at the number of men who find this unacceptable, while for women it is commonplace.

Cutter

LadyShea: Angelina Jolie is a freak! I wouldn't touch her with a forty foot pole! Blech!

Amen-Moses

Originally posted by Bree:

Should it matter?

Of course not, in an ideal world. Unfortunately we don't happen to live in one.

So, I suppose you'd be happy if some guy who was 30 years older than you simply was promoted over you and started doing your job for more money?

As I am the older guy I don't have any problem with this. And I am damn well worth the extra money!

I don't think so.

Think again.

I'm always astounded at the number of men who find this unacceptable, while for women it is commonplace.

Excuse me, the woman I worked with who earned 1000 dollars a month more than me for the same work at the same age at the same grade also took 6 months paid maternity leave and afterwards was always taking time off because "the nanny called", I had to cover for her many time (probably the "Gentleman" in me!). I happen to be a single parent of 3 children yet I didn't get any preferential treatment, why should she not only be paid more than me but get extra paid time off to sort out her personal life?

When do I get my maternity leave?


Amen-Moses