Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Pyrrho · 08-07-2003, 10:07 AM

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Originally posted by Pyrrho
Obviously, if everything were created by God, then God created the tree. Apparently, he put it there because he wanted it as an excuse to torture humanity for several thousand years, if not eternally in hellfire. It is also funny that it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, a knowledge Adam and Eve were not supposed to already have, so they could not know they were doing wrong when they ate of the tree, until after they ate from it. See, God really just wanted a lame excuse to hurt people.
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Originally posted by Magus55
It is so easy for you to mock and ridicule the Bible when you have absolutely no clue what it means. You seem to think the knowledge of good and evil encompasses ALL knowledge available. Adam and Eve didn't need to understand evil to know that God forbid them from eating from the tree. They did know what don't, and forbid mean. Those aren't good or evil concepts. The tree was created for the purpose of free will. There had to be something in the garden that God forbid, for Adam and Eve to have the ability to choose to obey or disobey God.

They could know that God commanded them not to eat of the tree without any knowledge of good and evil, but that means that they would not know whether following God was good or evil. Consequently, they had absolutely no reason to pay any attention to anything God said before they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Only afterward could they know it was wrong. Beforehand, they could not possibly know that it was wrong to disobey God, unless they really already had knowledge of good and evil.

Queen of Swords · 08-07-2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Magus55
Man being created from dust, fully grown is deamning to mankind, but being related to primates isn't?

Have you got something against primates? Did they demean, ridicule and insult you as well?

Biff the unclean · 08-07-2003, 12:25 PM

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Originally posted by Zucco
Satan is not mentioned before god places the tree of knowledge in the garden, and Adam & Eve needed that tree to commit their "sin." Again I ask, how did pre-tree evil exist?

Satan? There's no mention of Satan in this story. It only talks about Snake. And you know that Snake is only a snake, albeit a talking one, because god takes away it's legs and makes it eat the dust. I assume the dust it eats isn't the dust god sneezed on to make Adam. Too bad no one ate the fruit of the knowledge of vacuuming, that place must have been really dusty

Mageth · 08-07-2003, 12:36 PM

The whole mess could have been avoided if God would have given them just one more command: "See this tree? Don't eat its fruit. And NEVER talk to that goddammed serpent!"

Hedwig · 08-07-2003, 01:02 PM

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Originally posted by Magus55
Evil is the opposition of good, or anything that goes against God. When Satan and Adam/Eve committed sins, they went against God and thus caused evil.

God knew this would happen. Why did god let them?

Volker.Doormann · 08-07-2003, 01:15 PM

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Originally posted by Zucco
Where did any imperfect things come from?

The cognition to have no answer to this question means three things. First, that the questioner is imperfect as fact, and second, that he is aware about his imperfection. This awareness about shows, that there is something, that is more perfect, than the imperfection of the questioner. Third, it shows, that the couple of perfection and imperfection is not a one bit couple of truth, but a dimension of many grades, depending on the individual grad of awareness about the own something.

Volker

sophie · 08-07-2003, 01:17 PM

Biff the unclean :

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For instance this creation myth is so primitive and so out of touch with reality that viewed by a 21st century person of average intelligence it is ludicrous.

Hey what on Earth are you talking about? The universe was created in a flash, did'nt you hear? omniGOD had to explain it in steps so the living could comprehend. The day before the first I washed my hands, by the time there was light things were moving so quickly that omniGOd had to kick back and watch it all. They called that the seventh day.

sophie · 08-07-2003, 01:24 PM

Hedwig :

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God knew this would happen. Why did god let them?

I would think that so there could be a dominion of mortal choice.

Seriously this is one of the set of most foolish questions atheists continually ask. You want omniGOD to hold everyone hand all the time?

Think clearly. Try to construct a living with omniGOD scenario THEN try to connect with a living without omniGOD universe. Compare and contrast the two. Then if it were possible omniGOD exists would these two worlds be different?

BadBadBad · 08-07-2003, 01:42 PM

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Originally posted by Pyrrho
They could know that God commanded them not to eat of the tree without any knowledge of good and evil, but that means that they would not know whether following God was good or evil. Consequently, they had absolutely no reason to pay any attention to anything God said before they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Only afterward could they know it was wrong. Beforehand, they could not possibly know that it was wrong to disobey God, unless they really already had knowledge of good and evil.

Not only do you need to know the difference between right and wrong, you have to know the consequences as well.

Ask any 2 year old why he shouldn't play with the buttons on the stereo. Because mommy told me not to? That's not ever enough by itself is it? "Don't touch the stereo." The 2 year old says, "ok, so that's bad?" Then of course he keeps right on doing it. "Oh, now I see. Mommy will spank me if I keep touching the stereo. Ok, make a note. Touching the stereo is bad bad bad."

So where did the tree come from? Don't guess the good book says. Does it matter? Nope. Whether god created it and put it there doesn't matter. God created A&E without knowledge of good and evil. God put A&E into the garden of eden. God says "NO NO. Don't touch the tree or you'll die."

Die? Just die? He left a few things out of that didn't he? God will spank you if you touch the tree. Aaah. That's different.

I love my children. I certainly wouldn't stand by and let them touch a hot plate knowing the consequences and knowing they don't know the consequences. Even if I did tell them. Even if they were doing it just as a power struggle with me. Gosh, rebellion from a 2 year old. What a shock! But that's exactly what God did, and not only was it some natural consequence. God himself was the one that pulled out the hot poker as punishment.

sophie · 08-07-2003, 01:46 PM

brettc :

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I love my children. I certainly wouldn't stand by and let them touch a hot plate knowing the consequences and knowing they don't know the consequences. Even if I did tell them. Even if they were doing it just as a power struggle with me. Gosh, rebellion from a 2 year old. What a shock! But that's exactly what God did, and not only was it some natural consequence. God himself was the one that pulled out the hot poker as punishment.

Would your answer change if the children you loved dearly were 22 years old?

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08-07-2003, 12:01 PM	#62
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by Magus55 Man being created from dust, fully grown is deamning to mankind, but being related to primates isn't? Have you got something against primates? Did they demean, ridicule and insult you as well?

08-07-2003, 12:36 PM	#64
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	The whole mess could have been avoided if God would have given them just one more command: "See this tree? Don't eat its fruit. And NEVER talk to that goddammed serpent!"

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