Shadowy Man

It's just a redshift that is evidence of expansion. Things blueshift when they are moving toward you.

Peregrine

GTX, language is such a poor tool because words can have several meanings (the most abused of course is "theory").

Our universe is finite, but is it just a corner of a greater meta-universe (with other universes being created or dying) or the latest rendition of a universe that expands then contracts then expands again with our current version possibly being the last expansion?

Godless Dave

None that I can see. Should this be moved to Science and Skepticism?

Kevin Dorner

Yes. The thread may have started out with a possiblity of being relevant to E/C but it has firmly deviated away from this.

Moving topic to the Science & Skepticism forum.

Starboy

Hi GTX,

Are these creationist physics professors you are referring to? All of the ones I know don�t think 1-3. What is your definition of nothingness? Is empty space nothing?

Starboy

Badfish

Empty space as we know it now is something, we are now finding that there may be substance to the blackness of space.

My Physics professor is a creationist, because of entropy and because he says if you trust the math which is always right (Einstein?), you get the three options. Now Universe creating the Universe does not imply a superior being, it can include cause from a non cause and etc. Creating itself by means of another Universe or any combination of matter meeting anti matter, etc.

And I don't know what was present before the Big Bang or the origin of the Universe, thats why I am curious and asking for views.

This is ad infinitium maybe? What events created the greater meta-Universe? . A very interesting theory.

Thanks so far for all the answers. I love this stuff!

Badfish

Mods, I am not questioning you moving this thread, but the origin of the Universe easily falls under evolution/creation, because of it's expansion and contraction, and it's conception, there is an evolutionary aspect to it's being which encompasses every known thing.

Is evolution/creation forum specifically for species evolution and creation? If so I am sorry, please delete this.

Godless Dave

Clarify, please. Space is a near-total vacuum but there is some trace hydrogen. Plus virtual particles. But this has been known for decades.

Then he's not a very good professor. The three options in your first post are not the only three ideas concerning the reason for the existence of the universe, and option #1 doesn't even make sense.

Me neither! Some theories hold that "before the Big Bang" is a meaningless concept. Time is a property of the universe itself and came into existence with the Big Bang. But that still leaves the question of why the universe is here at all. I don't have any "beliefs" about this. I'll just have to accept that I don't know until such time as science comes up with an answer that fits the evidence - which I don't expect in my lifetime. But there are certainly more possibilities than the three you listed.

Badfish

Thanks Dave, the hubble and radio telescopes are finding that the blackness or vaccuum of space may actually contain chemicals other than hydrogen, possibly. There are studies addressing Black matter.

And the 3 catagories are inclusive of everything, either the Universe was created by itself or spawned of another Universe, or created because of molecular collisions, this falls under #2 and is valid. I believe all other theories would fall into number 2. And I mean all! If you find a theory that does not basically fit into one of the 3 catagories, please clarify.

Number 1 is just a catagory to encompass everything else outside of #2 and is just a catagory, it is impossible so not really a choice, but JUST a catagory to encompass ALL possibilities.

Godless Dave

I can't speak for the moderators, but the theory of evolution is only about biology. You sometimes hear the term evolution used to describe the changes that take place in stars and galaxies, as well as language, politics, and other areas but in those cases the word is being used metaphorically. Often it's not even that good a metaphor.