Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Megusic · 02-11-2003, 02:06 PM

Amie,

As I understand it, Catholics ask the Saints to pray to God for them, or help them pray to God. Is this correct? I understand that you still pray to God himself, so why the need to use saints at all? And, as my friend (who went to Catholic private school grades pre-k to 8)said herself she prayed TO St. Anthony, it was not just my Prot. friend who was "wrong" but her too?

I have looked up and found prayers for lost items all addressed to St. Anthony explicitly asking him to retrieve the lost item. How does this work? I am honestly curious, not trying to be an ass, although I do see it as a little silly asking for divine intervention in finding lost keys when there are bigger things going on in the world that a supremem being would rather be working on...

And one more question, do you personally believe that St. Anthony helped my friend find the keys in the purse that she was already looking in? Just curious. As I said, I grew up w/ many Catholic friends, but religion wasn't often the topic of conversation. My one other friend who was with us who also attended private Cath. school said to me "St. Anthony my Ass!" so I'm not quite sure what to make of the whole situation...

Thanks,
megusic

02-11-2003, 02:17 PM

Praying to St. Anthony is a good idea and a much better idea than praying to God because God is not part of our life or we would not have lost it to begin with.

Further, do you really think that God is going to help you if you are at emnity with God? Or is God just tricking you here so he can punish you with pain and suffering?

Gabriell is the only angel of God and he is not there to find your car keys.

christ-on-a-stick · 02-11-2003, 02:59 PM

Hey Ronin, can I borrow your "eyes-crossed" smilie? I have the incredible urge to insert one immediately following any of Amos' posts...

Not totally off-topic because it relates to the concept of prayer, last night I was watching Fear Factor (hey I had nothing else to do!) and it was a "couple's" episode. One of the final 2 couples was going up in an elevator to the top of a tall building (it was some kind of heights/balance stunt) and the wife says to the husband "let's pray, honey". So they hold hands and pray to win!

Well, they lost. I think they were Christians (the prayer didn't sound Catholic) - they should have been though, by this time there's gotta be a Patron Saint of Reality TV !!!

lpetrich · 02-11-2003, 03:29 PM

This bit about praying to saints to intercede with god seems very bureaucratic.

abe smith · 02-12-2003, 06:47 AM

I AM NOT a Catholic; nor any sort of theist believer. I do not assert that I believe Antony of Padua found my missing trivia.
I reported the facts of my personal experience(s) in the matter. There are no agenda implicit in my remarks.

Of COURSE the missing item is alwiz found in the LAST place one looks. As the LAST bus to arrive is the one you want.
Kakh eenacheh?

02-12-2003, 08:00 AM

Apology accepted, Abe. You just pray as an outsider when the need arises and it works for you.

abe smith · 02-12-2003, 08:05 AM

Amos, old dear, my foregoing post was not an apology (in your sense). It was an explanation to allay misunderstanding = an 'apology' in an older sense.
You & I will get on better, Amos, if we (continue to) ignore each other; shall we, not, dance? Millle villes tranquilles.

02-12-2003, 10:10 AM

Sorry, my friend. I tought that as we get older we become wiser and more careful when we expose ourselves.

sullster · 02-12-2003, 02:49 PM

Catholics are lucky, a Saint can come in handy every once in a while. Who doesn't need a bit of help finding things?

It is not as arrogant as asking the Creator of the Universe to help little worm-you find your car keys. I guess the idea is that all these saints run around and do stupid little things so the BIG GUY doesn't have to bother.

Not a bad system, but very bureaucratic indeed.

Some reward, though, for becoming a saint. You get to spend all eternity, running around finding things for people. What a bore, sounds more like hell.

Amie · 02-12-2003, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Megusic
Amie,
As I understand it, Catholics ask the Saints to pray to God for them, or help them pray to God. Is this correct?

Hi Megusic, yes thats right.

Quote:

I understand that you still pray to God himself, so why the need to use saints at all? And, as my friend (who went to Catholic private school grades pre-k to 8)said herself she prayed TO St. Anthony, it was not just my Prot. friend who was "wrong" but her too?

Well saints can be a great mediator of sorts. We certainly do not pray to them as we would to God after all worship and adoration are to be given to God, not the saints. That does not mean that the saints are not honored and held in high esteem because they are and many times many catholics ask them to pray for and with them to God. An example I can think of would be the "Hail Mary" when catholics ask Mary to "pray for us".
I have taken part in intercessory prayer before and basically that is so we can ask the saints to join us in prayers or pray for us, to give us some spiritual backup. All blessings come from God.

Quote:

I have looked up and found prayers for lost items all addressed to St. Anthony explicitly asking him to retrieve the lost item. How does this work? I am honestly curious, not trying to be an ass, although I do see it as a little silly asking for divine intervention in finding lost keys when there are bigger things going on in the world that a supremem being would rather be working on...

I tend to try to trace my steps when I lose something so I really do not take part in "praying to St. Anthony". Not a bad idea though, I think there is some power there basically because I believe in the power of prayer, but not only that but it seems to me if someone believes St. Anthony will help they will believe so whether they found the keys themselves or not.

Quote:

And one more question, do you personally believe that St. Anthony helped my friend find the keys in the purse that she was already looking in? Just curious.

I believe that was certainly possible. One day you can ask St. Anthony yourself

Quote:

As I said, I grew up w/ many Catholic friends, but religion wasn't often the topic of conversation. My one other friend who was with us who also attended private Cath. school said to me "St. Anthony my Ass!" so I'm not quite sure what to make of the whole situation...

I think this must sound rather strange from an objective viewpoint...

take care Megusic

02-12-2003, 08:05 AM	#17
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	ARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH! Amos, old dear, my foregoing post was not an apology (in your sense). It was an explanation to allay misunderstanding = an 'apology' in an older sense. You & I will get on better, Amos, if we (continue to) ignore each other; shall we, not, dance? Millle villes tranquilles.

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02-11-2003, 02:06 PM	#11
Megusic Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: OH Posts: 1,292	Amie, As I understand it, Catholics ask the Saints to pray to God for them, or help them pray to God. Is this correct? I understand that you still pray to God himself, so why the need to use saints at all? And, as my friend (who went to Catholic private school grades pre-k to 8)said herself she prayed TO St. Anthony, it was not just my Prot. friend who was "wrong" but her too? I have looked up and found prayers for lost items all addressed to St. Anthony explicitly asking him to retrieve the lost item. How does this work? I am honestly curious, not trying to be an ass, although I do see it as a little silly asking for divine intervention in finding lost keys when there are bigger things going on in the world that a supremem being would rather be working on... And one more question, do you personally believe that St. Anthony helped my friend find the keys in the purse that she was already looking in? Just curious. As I said, I grew up w/ many Catholic friends, but religion wasn't often the topic of conversation. My one other friend who was with us who also attended private Cath. school said to me "St. Anthony my Ass!" so I'm not quite sure what to make of the whole situation... Thanks, megusic

02-11-2003, 02:17 PM	#12
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Praying to St. Anthony is a good idea and a much better idea than praying to God because God is not part of our life or we would not have lost it to begin with. Further, do you really think that God is going to help you if you are at emnity with God? Or is God just tricking you here so he can punish you with pain and suffering? Gabriell is the only angel of God and he is not there to find your car keys.

02-11-2003, 02:59 PM	#13
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	Hey Ronin, can I borrow your "eyes-crossed" smilie? I have the incredible urge to insert one immediately following any of Amos' posts... Not totally off-topic because it relates to the concept of prayer, last night I was watching Fear Factor (hey I had nothing else to do!) and it was a "couple's" episode. One of the final 2 couples was going up in an elevator to the top of a tall building (it was some kind of heights/balance stunt) and the wife says to the husband "let's pray, honey". So they hold hands and pray to win! Well, they lost. I think they were Christians (the prayer didn't sound Catholic) - they should have been though, by this time there's gotta be a Patron Saint of Reality TV !!!

02-11-2003, 03:29 PM	#14
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	This bit about praying to saints to intercede with god seems very bureaucratic.

02-12-2003, 06:47 AM	#15
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	I AM NOT a Catholic; nor any sort of theist believer. I do not assert that I believe Antony of Padua found my missing trivia. I reported the facts of my personal experience(s) in the matter. There are no agenda implicit in my remarks. Of COURSE the missing item is alwiz found in the LAST place one looks. As the LAST bus to arrive is the one you want. Kakh eenacheh?

02-12-2003, 08:00 AM	#16
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Apology accepted, Abe. You just pray as an outsider when the need arises and it works for you.

02-12-2003, 10:10 AM	#18
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry, my friend. I tought that as we get older we become wiser and more careful when we expose ourselves.

02-12-2003, 02:49 PM	#19
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	Catholics are lucky, a Saint can come in handy every once in a while. Who doesn't need a bit of help finding things? It is not as arrogant as asking the Creator of the Universe to help little worm-you find your car keys. I guess the idea is that all these saints run around and do stupid little things so the BIG GUY doesn't have to bother. Not a bad system, but very bureaucratic indeed. Some reward, though, for becoming a saint. You get to spend all eternity, running around finding things for people. What a bore, sounds more like hell.

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