Zar

That picture looks like a scene from Eyes Wide Shut. With clothes on.

Too bizarre.

Jamie_L

<a href="http://www.evangelchurch.org/" target="_blank">http://www.evangelchurch.org/</a>

The above link shows a pic of my local behemoth cathedral (located in Upper Marlborogh Maryland near D.C.). The pic doesn't give the whole picture. There's another giant statue not seen in the photo, and there's some kind of religious theater behind the cathedral.

Every time I drive by that thing, I just shake my head. Clearly it must have cost a tremendous amount of money. With those statues outside, I'd hate to think about what kind of statuary/artwork is inside.

Interesting sidenote: this place is a mile or so from the local Six Flags amusement park. I find that... interesting.

Jamie

99Percent

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>

ImGod

My old church was the same. Not catholic, but the progressive face of the methodist church. They were starting a new capital campaign to raise $40 million for new construction.

<a href="http://www.cor.org/devsite/home/StudyGuides/gods_plans/gods_plans_index.htm" target="_blank">God's Plans</a>

The last construction went over budget by 100 percent. I expect them to end up around $80 million before its finished. They want a 125-foot tall steeple to be a "beacon of light" to the community. All the houses that line the church parking lot in the subdivision next door are for sale. I guess they don't care for the traffic and the beacon in their back yards. Projected sanctuary seating, subject to change of course, is 8,000.

The church also formed an investment group to develop the adjacent properties so they can put the parking lots near the new church. You could buy bonds in the "COR Investment Group" (not in any way affiliated with the non profit United Methodist Church of the Resurrection (COR)) to help raise money for the $10 million dollar land acquisition. The development will raise the remaining money and pay back your low interest not a donation/loan through corporate rent.

P.S. Funny how the minister sold one of those houses backing up to the church and just bought a new one in a 5-10 acre per lot estate neighborhood.

sighhswolf

When I see these kind of lavish accomodations for god worship in all of the major organized religions, I always think about a parable presented by M.M. Mangasairian, in a lecture at the Independent Religious Society in Chicago in the early 1900's.
The entire text is available in the II library.
The parable tells a story of a greek man who has through some unknown force been sleeping for centuries.
He awakens in a different time period and finds himself meeting a priest who leads him into the church and tells him about Jesus.
Inside the church with the priest he asks numerous questions and notices people kneeling and praying and he thinks that Jesus is coming in to speak to his followers. (this after the priest has soundly criticized the greek gods that he had worshipped)

"I want to see Jesus," I hastened, turning toward him. I said this reverently and in good faith. "Will he not be here this morning? Will he not speak to his worshippers?" I asked again. "Will he not permit them to touch him, to caress his hand, to clasp his divine feet, to inhale the ambrosial fragrance of his breath, to bask in the golden light of his eyes, to hear the music of his immaculate accents? Let me, too, see Jesus," I pleaded.

"You cannot see him," answered my guide, with a trace of embarrassment in his voice. "He does not show himself any more."

I was too much surprised at this to make any immediate reply.

"For the last two thousand years," my guide continued, "it has not pleased Jesus to show himself to any one; neither has he been heard from for the same number of years."

"For two thousand years no one has either seen or heard Jesus?" I asked, my eyes filled with wonder and my voice quivering with excitement.

"No," he answered.

"Would not that, then," I ventured to ask, impatiently, "make Jesus as much of an idol as Apollo? And are not these people on their knees before a god of whose existence they are as much in the dark as were the Greeks of fair Apollo, and of whose past they have only rumors such as Homer reports of our Olympian gods -- as idolatrous as the Athenians? What would you say," I asked my guide, "if I were to demand that you should produce Jesus and prove him to my eyes and ears as you have asked me to produce and prove Apollo? What is the difference between a ceremony performed in honor of Apollo and one performed in honor of Jesus, since it is as impossible to give oracular demonstration of the existence of the one as of the other? If Jesus is alive and a god, and Apollo is an idol and dead, what is the evidence, since the one is as invisible, as inaccessible, and as unproducible as the other? And, if faith that Jesus is a god proves him a god, why will not faith in Apollo make him a god? But if worshipping Jesus, whom for the best part of the last two thousand years no man has seen, heard or touched; if building temples to him, burning incense upon his altars, bowing at his shrine and calling him "God," is not idolatry, neither is it idolatry to kindle fire upon the luminous altars of the Greek Apollo, -- God of the dawn, master of the enchanted lyre -- he with the bow and arrow tipped with fire! I am not denying," I said, "that Jesus ever lived. He may have been alive two thousand years ago, but if he has not been heard from since, if the same thing that happened to the people living at the time he lived has happened to him, namely -- if he is dead, then you are worshipping the dead, which fact stamps your religion as idolatrous."

And, then, remembering what he had said to me about the Greek mythology being beautiful but not true, I said to him: "Your temples are indeed gorgeous and costly; your music is grand your altars are superb; your litany is exquisite; your chants are melting; your incense, and bells and flowers, your gold and silver vessels are all in rare taste, and I dare say your dogmas are subtle and your preachers eloquent, but your religion has one fault -- it is not true."

Kinda speaks for itself.
I really like this parable because it cuts to the very heart of lavishness, pomp and circumstance,
and it questions the entire premise of christianity as a system of belief, by the comparison of two "myths".

It is time for people to take an honest look at the organized religions.
Christianity has grown rich, politically powerful, and above (in most cases) examination
and accounting for the billions of dollars they
require from their followers as supposedly "non-profit" organizations.
The catholic priest "problem" indicates the length
the leadership will go to to protect their image.
It is not a stretch of the imagination to think that the troubles that are being admitted to are part of a much broader deception.
Setting yourself up as a "spiritual authority"
with a (sic) direct line to this god does not mean you are ethical in your dealings with temporal matters.
Wolf

Amos

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sighhswolf:
[QB].


But this is the Cathlic Church and Christ is alive and well in the Catholic Church. We are not Jesus worshippers and we do not pray up a storm to get the HS down from heaven. At best we refer to the example set by Jesus and are always left with the idea that we must pick up our cross and follow him, each in his or her own way and we never (?) point fingers because there is no standard method wherein we are called righteous or deserving.

The richess of the Church are just evidence for the benefits to its members. Nobody in the Church is rich and the priests eats just three meals a day like you and me. Have you ever wondered why donations to the Church at times run into the hundreds of millions while for others pennies is all they can affort but for which the Church is just a gratefull?

If there is beauty in gold the aim of the Church is for us to come to the realization that the true beauty of gold lies in our ability to walk away from it and sort of just heap it on "the pile" (as if it were a potlatch) meant to become the symbol of our richess in heaven.

bonduca

Instead of a display symbolizing richness in heaven with gaudy extravagant architecture, why not help actual human beings?

Amos

Because the "chase for gold" is the most exciting part of life (we'll screw our fellow man to achieve it) and nobody should be deprived of this with "free lunches."

Giving as in "charity for the poor" is always done out of guilt and preachers know that the more guilty we can be made to feel the more we give. To heap it on a pile is to plead "not guilty" (as in "forgived and redeemed") as if with a Stoic conscience.

sighhswolf

Well I'm sorry Amos but this topic is not averted
by abstract concepts and spiritual imagery.
The Vatican is just plain wallowing in excess as far as I am concerned.
And to me it doesnt mean a tinkers DAMN what the average catholic contributes or does not contribute, because the power structure has assured itself of unlimited income even if they were to recieve nothing in donations.
To question the lavishness and excess of modern christianity has very little to do with the average person on the street, except to take a few dollars out of their pockets when they can.
Yes it would be a blow to most christian organizations if they were to experience a sudden down turn in their contributions, but the contributions are just the tip of the iceburg when examining the financial structure of organized religion.
The real money comes from investments, land holdings, lavish and excessively overdone investments in architecture, and the excessive appointments inside those multi-million dollar places of worship.
We are not talking about the priesthood, nor the Nuns, not even the average catholic devotee.
We are talking about WEALTH and power.
We are talking about children the entire world over being able to look at pictures of some new multi-million dollar facility, while they starve to death.

"Oh look my child, god has a new beautiful building".
"Mommy will he send us food to eat?"

There is no excuse, for using millions to build new facilities while people starve and suffer everyday on this planet.
Why do you need wealth to be a spiritual guide?
Do you honestly think that the "spirit" of christianity as it is practiced today is being true to the established teachings of it's icon?
When the leadership sets the tithe at 10% of your yearly income and sends you a damn statement at the end of the year for federal tax purposes, that's a business....it sure as hell isn't
just a spiritual thing.
You know we can all sit back and say well the church has to have money to operate, that is a fact in the world today, but why? Why should the church NEED money to carry out the doctrines of christianity?
Is the money all going to help the homeless?
Is it being spent to feed starving children?
Is it being used to educate people to feed themselves, by the methods of modern agriculture?
Is it used to put clothes on the backs of the needy?
Some of these questions you would say oh yes indeed the church supports all these things financially, then why is the need still there?
There is an inordinate amount of money being collected when compared to the amount of help that is being rendered.
No one can tell me that the billions of dollars that organized religion is capable of generating daily could not if put to ***PROPER USE**** ease and nearly erase the starvation that is rampant in our world today.
But the key is "use"...... we dont need more damn ugly overdone expensive churches, that should be an embarrassment to any thinking and reasoning person.
There is no way to justify the expenditures of the organized faiths vs. the actual financial assistance rendered by those organizations.
It's not just catholics either, everytime I see a baptist church being built when there are 15 others in a 10 block radius I have to question why????????
When you take a little time to watch some of the evangelists TV programs it is a constant and irritating money grubbing assault on the senses.
Money, money, money every single religious organization does the same thing.

If the Catholics and the Baptists, and Presbyterians, and the Jews, and the Mormons would all cut loose of some of their aquired wealth and land holdings and utilize some of their political pull to feed those who are starving, sell off all the gold and art and relics they have garnered over the years and convert those holdings to cash and feed the hungry THEN
they would be following in the path of Jebus.

I personally will never give another dime to any church, but I will do what I can by supporting
honest charities where I can see the effect of those donations.
The churches are all alike they want you to tithe, and they continously remind you of that, but it seems that almost every week there is another crisis that has to be averted by a "special offering" of some kind.
Anyone who thinks that churches are non-profit organizations should be a christian you would have to be blind to swallow that crap.
Wolf

bonduca

Amos, with all due respect, that is complete and utter nonsense. If the church has enough money to build some gargantuan pile of gilt-encrusted egomania, then they have the money to FEED THE POOR AND SUFFERING. If one has not the means to obtain one's "lunch," one must have it given freely, or DIE OF STARVATION AND DISEASE. That "greed is good" crap went out with Michael Douglas's role in "Wall Street," along with red power ties and hair grease.

It is inappropriate at best for an entity claiming to represent the spritual side of life to deck itself out in the trappings of Liberace.