Amie

Dearest skeptics,
what do you think of the studies they have done on prayers being beneficial?

lunachick

Actually, that probably has some truth to it. It is like having a pet - a cat or lapdog. When you are stroking the pet, your heart rate slows and you are calmed. It is great for easing stress. So, I guess prayer is great for people without pets. It won't change the circumstances - wishes will not be granted - etc - but it can be beneficial for it's meditative quailities, perhaps?

But, no - It's certainly not good for invoking divine intervention, or anything. For that you need special herbs.

Infinity Lover

I guess praying for guidance might have some effect, even if from my secular point of view its merely a way to get the creative juices flowing.

Amie

I think people have more capabilities within ourselves than some realize. I think that people can accomplish many great things with or without prayers but some people just lack confidence in themselves and I think prayer can be very beneficial in helping under those circumstances...
I believe the power of prayer

lunachick

Hmmm. I don't believe in the power of prayer so much - I believe in the power of the mind. Mind over matter. It can be a powerful and creative thing. It can lead to illumination, or dellusion - depending on where it is taken. I also believe in the power of "no-mind" as something regenerative (restorative? - forgive any semantic nits - I've not slept for awhile). "No mind", through mediative techniques - in this case types of prayer - can energise someone who is stressed by assisting with a deeper relaxation. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I definitely don't believe in the power of prayer as being "a gift from god", or anything, though. It can't bring you closer to god - but it MAY bring you closer to yourself.

Amie

Hi Luna
I think prayer can help people *feel* closer to God...

Sue Sponte

The same thing I think of studies demostrating the placebo effect. If people believe a sugar pill will help them, some people actually improve. I see no reason that the result would be any different for prayer.

Unless, of course, the supreme being considers eating sugar pills the equivalent of praying.

Ronin

Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers.

Here is what really works ~

Work.

So, open those eyes, get up off your knees and go DO it...time is being wasted.

You may not get whatever it is that you are hoping or wishing for...but, you will be filled with the integrity and honesty of knowing that you made the personal effort.

Accountability for one's own life without pretense...now, there is a novel approach.

Amie

Many people do both ronin.
yes I understand that you believe prayer is a waste of time.
Ronin just because someone prays does not make them any less accountable for themselves nor does it mean that someone does not make every effort for their life. People who pray are not necessarily less honest or with any less integrity than people who dont pray.

Ronin

Yet, the more reliance people place on 'believing' the less effort they spend on 'thinking'.

Which, therefore, leads to less and less reliance on thinking and subsequently detracts from a healthy understanding of the human condition.

They were called 'The Dark Ages' for a reason.

Simple observation of one inoperable in 'full prayer mode' ~ as the other physically works for the same goal, leads me to this obvious and factual conclusion.

Based upon the comments made by the 'prayerful' that places any outcome (beneficial or devious) of whatever eventual action they can muster firmly upon an imaginary being, refutes your assertion in such absolutes.

Pretending that you are talking to a magic wizard for any amount of time is nonsensical, personally dishonest and lacks integrity.

This is the specific issue that I am addressing.

Anyone may be dishonest and immoral for any number of reasons, however, praying and then asserting that 'it works' is the equivalent of holding a rabbits foot for luck while making the same nebulous claim.