HRG

The Pythagorean theorem requires the abstract concept of "length", "square", "rectangular" etc., all of which are creations of the human mind; without them, it cannot be said to exist. As you see, I am not a mathematical Platonist.

Besides, it is valid only in Euclidean geometry. In hyperbolic geometry, it is replaced by cosh c = cosh a * cosh b; and I refuse to believe that the hyperbolic cosine existed in a Platonic heaven, just waiting to be discovered.

But the P.T. is not a fact about the universe, but a formally valid theorem in an axiomatic theory (Euclidean geometry). The physical fact says that the behavior of measuring rods, light rays etc. on Earth is modelled to excellent accuracy by Euclidean geometry.

Regards,
HRG.

Tristan Scott

How do you know that?

Why? Many things that aren't alive influence civilization.

Charlie

(just found this place last night - love it! signed up immediately)

As a living thing, god does not exist.
As an inanimate object, god does not exist.
As something that leaves behind physical evidence of it's existence, once again god does not exist.

The only place that one could say god exists, is in the minds of believers. However, there is one definition in Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary that states existence to be: "reality as apposed to appearance.. ..the totality of existent things.. ..living being, having being, LIFE.. ..the state or fact of having being esp. independently of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence.." One could attempt to use this as argument to say that just because someone can imagine a "creature" or "being" in their mind, does not justify that the imagined "being" has existence. With this one could argue that god does not exist at all, even in the minds of believers!

I would like to also submit that if humans did not exist then god would not exist. Once again because god only exists in the minds of humans. If there were no humans, then it would just be the slightly lower life forms, ie. animals, plant life... living on this planet doing the best they can to survive with no god, imagined or otherwise.

Of course, it all depends on one's definitions of god and existence! Also, if you try to start talking about "other" realities, other worlds, other energies and sciences, perhaps saying that we could not possibly know all there is to know and therefore there may actually be a god? Please save your breath! What does it matter about other realities, worlds, energies.. that may or may not be? It Doesn't! Meaning it doesn't matter to us! The only thing that matters is OUR world, our reality! And I'm not being egotistical. I'm simply stating that we must be aware of, and realize that this is all we are! Sure it is ok to imagine and dream about the possibilities of all kinds of things. Why can't humans just remember that that's all it is, dreams! Instead humans turn their dreams into belief, and then turn their belief into their truth and thus religion is born leading to control, power, oppression, killing, wars...

Wyz_sub10

Hi Charlie,

Welcome to the forums! Please feel free to stop by the Secular Lounge to say 'hello' and introduce yourself.

Enjoy your stay. Let a mod know if you need any info.

Cheers,
Wyz_sub10,
EoG mod

Radcliffe Emerson

Not consciously, the way the bible claims.
The bible claims 'god' wrestled with Jacob. It It claims 'god' talked to Moses.
Then again, it claims a donkey talked to Absalom.

Anyway, how can a 'god' talk to someone, give them commandments, etc, if it is not alive?

Tristan Scott

So? The bible makes lots of claims. The bible was written by superstitious people who thought the world was flat.

It doesn't matter if it can or not if people think it can. Santa Clause doesnt really exist either, yet he gives children billions of dollars worth of toys every year. He may not really exist but to retailers he is the most significant reality in their business.

Radcliffe Emerson

I'm just pointing out that a 'god' in a literal, real sense as a divine being guiding the universe does not exist, except as an invention of man.
God did not create man, man created god.