Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gilly54 · 06-07-2002, 12:38 PM

Quote:

There is a great book I read a few months back that I cannot think of the Author nor the title.I am planning on going back to the library and will find it and get back to you.My point from this book is this.The scientific world realizes there has to be a "singularity".This book goes into detail about black holes,energy,time,reality, perception, etc...And compares a "GOD" and evolution.Realizing of course that there could be both evolution and a "GOD". Either way, if you really think about it,there has to be a singularity.The singularity could be the active force people call "GOD"!!

In my opinion, there is no place for a god in evolution. A god is unproveable. If science does indeed come up with this "singularity", it will be in the form of a chemical/electrical/ physical process that is observeable and quite possibly reproduceable. This will change the Theory of Evolution to a fact. Can you imagine the upheaval to society when this happens?! The strongly religious will still look for some abstract way out to justify their beliefs: "It was GOD who arranged for this singularity to happen!"

jenn · 06-07-2002, 12:52 PM

Please dont take this to heart...but that did not make any since to me!!There is room for a God and evolution. They are both theories!!One could say that the singularity is not the same as matter or energy. How do we not know that god is something that cannot be measured. How do we know that God is an emotion(LOVE) or matter, or possibly energy. God might be proven and we are to blind or stupid to "see" it. If one believed EXACLTY what the Bible says...then we would have to conclude that God is Love. NO ONE knows but it is fun as hell to imagine the possiblities <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

gilly54 · 06-07-2002, 06:30 PM

Quote:

If one believed EXACLTY what the Bible says...then we would have to conclude that God is Love.

No offense, but I just sputter with disbelief, amazement, and incredulity, at statements like this. I have trouble taking seriously, any post that combines science with the Bible.

I'll nitpick and say that I noticed your second sentence said "a God", meaning we could attribute all the things you mention to Horus, or Zeus, or Jupiter, or Rama or any of the other thousands of deities that mankind has conjured up in the past.

We'll invent a device, sort of like those night vision goggles maybe, that will detect the presence of a god in our midst.

elwoodblues · 06-07-2002, 06:57 PM

Quote:

We'll invent a device, sort of like those night vision goggles maybe, that will detect the presence of a god in our midst.

And then lynch it for the bang-up job it's done so far.

gilly54 · 06-07-2002, 09:12 PM

Jenn,

My last post may have been a little harsh. My stress is melting with every sip of this excellent cabernet...

As I watched the sun set, I was thinking that one could say "God gave us this beautiful sunset". But I know that it is a combination of cosmology, atmospheric conditions and the section of the electromagnetic spectrum that involves visible light which activates the cones of the eye to emit signals to the brain that interpret the various hues. Not very poetic to some, but to one who loves science, it is poetry! I think that we need to give us humans credit for the discoveries we have made, and will make, that explain how life works. We don't have to attribute natural occurances to a god.

If you believe that the Biblical God is Love, an omniscient, omnipotent entity, explain to me why he allowed a young father to die of cancer today. Sorry, I'm getting heavy again.

Where are those god-detecting goggles when you need them so I could ask him that very question. What do you think he'd say?
(If you want to answer this, put it on the more appropriate Existence of God forum.)

Gilly

beausoleil · 06-08-2002, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gilly54:
<strong>Forgive my laziness, I haven't looked at any of the abiogenesis sites yet, but I would think that the introduction of radiation into the experiments must have been attempted. Cosmic radiation must have played a role in the primordial atmosphere, which was not as dense or protective as it is today.

I looked at the "shower" or decay scheme of a cosmic particle and it is quite complex. Does anyone know what kind of radiation was used and the energies? I did look up the radiation energy of cosmic rays and a chart said that at zero altitude, the enrgies were from 10-4 to 10-1 microSv, or microGray. Since a Sv is 1J/kg, then a cosmic ray would be 10-5 to 10-8 Sv, if I'm doing my exponents correctly. Assuming that the experimentors subjected their "primordial earth" to radiation, what type and energy of radiation did they use to duplicate the cosmic radiation of millenia ago? Just wondering!</strong>

Actually, the primordial atmosphere was probably more dense that that today. I think the experiment used uv.

Cosmic rays 4 Ga ago were probably much as they are today. I think the sun reached the main sequence before life got going in most people's thinking.

Starspun · 06-10-2002, 11:07 AM

This post is off subject (although this is THE question of human existence).

Liquid, you seem to play EQ. I too have been playing fantasy type games since I was 10. Funny, but after perusing this site and finding my new philosophy in life, I just can't make myself log on or continue life with that mind-frame. Don't get me wrong, I still like a break from reality. Unlike others that get a reality break on Sunday mornings, I now play Anarchy Online. The nano technology aspect is more realistic than magic.

I'm with you Gilly; humans will figure this all out. I think (with nothing to back my claims), there is ONE answer to the cosmos and all matter within. If we keep an open mind and let science lead us, the truth shall set us free.
Personally, I am tired of the differing beliefs that keep humans from recognizing we are ALL human, and nothing more. Divided we will stumble through history, sputtering down the road of life like my camaro. But, once we all are on the same page, there will be no limits to what we can do. Taking a look at life now, everywhere we turn, there is something said or done that continues to keep us seperate. When will it end? How will it end? Will it end? I hope so.
The biggest stumbling block is religious beliefs, or, more precisely, existence. Once the singular is found and factuated, from there, we can begin anew. I will not be around to see it, but, instead of saying Im a texan, or an anglo, or atheist, I would like to say simply, 'I am human.' And be damned proud of that fact.
Sorry for the rambling...next stop: Abiogenisis. Thanks for the posts.

KeithHarwood · 06-12-2002, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenn:
<strong>The singularity could be the active force people call "GOD"!!

</strong>

Or the singularity could be just us using an inappropriate coordinate system, like using azimuths when standing at the north pole.

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06-07-2002, 12:52 PM	#42
jenn Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 57	Please dont take this to heart...but that did not make any since to me!!There is room for a God and evolution. They are both theories!!One could say that the singularity is not the same as matter or energy. How do we not know that god is something that cannot be measured. How do we know that God is an emotion(LOVE) or matter, or possibly energy. God might be proven and we are to blind or stupid to "see" it. If one believed EXACLTY what the Bible says...then we would have to conclude that God is Love. NO ONE knows but it is fun as hell to imagine the possiblities <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

06-07-2002, 09:12 PM	#45
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	Jenn, My last post may have been a little harsh. My stress is melting with every sip of this excellent cabernet... As I watched the sun set, I was thinking that one could say "God gave us this beautiful sunset". But I know that it is a combination of cosmology, atmospheric conditions and the section of the electromagnetic spectrum that involves visible light which activates the cones of the eye to emit signals to the brain that interpret the various hues. Not very poetic to some, but to one who loves science, it is poetry! I think that we need to give us humans credit for the discoveries we have made, and will make, that explain how life works. We don't have to attribute natural occurances to a god. If you believe that the Biblical God is Love, an omniscient, omnipotent entity, explain to me why he allowed a young father to die of cancer today. Sorry, I'm getting heavy again. Where are those god-detecting goggles when you need them so I could ask him that very question. What do you think he'd say? (If you want to answer this, put it on the more appropriate Existence of God forum.) Gilly

06-10-2002, 11:07 AM	#47
Starspun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 334	This post is off subject (although this is THE question of human existence). Liquid, you seem to play EQ. I too have been playing fantasy type games since I was 10. Funny, but after perusing this site and finding my new philosophy in life, I just can't make myself log on or continue life with that mind-frame. Don't get me wrong, I still like a break from reality. Unlike others that get a reality break on Sunday mornings, I now play Anarchy Online. The nano technology aspect is more realistic than magic. I'm with you Gilly; humans will figure this all out. I think (with nothing to back my claims), there is ONE answer to the cosmos and all matter within. If we keep an open mind and let science lead us, the truth shall set us free. Personally, I am tired of the differing beliefs that keep humans from recognizing we are ALL human, and nothing more. Divided we will stumble through history, sputtering down the road of life like my camaro. But, once we all are on the same page, there will be no limits to what we can do. Taking a look at life now, everywhere we turn, there is something said or done that continues to keep us seperate. When will it end? How will it end? Will it end? I hope so. The biggest stumbling block is religious beliefs, or, more precisely, existence. Once the singular is found and factuated, from there, we can begin anew. I will not be around to see it, but, instead of saying Im a texan, or an anglo, or atheist, I would like to say simply, 'I am human.' And be damned proud of that fact. Sorry for the rambling...next stop: Abiogenisis. Thanks for the posts.

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