ps418

Thanks John.

You know, one more point that should be mentioned is that the polystrate trees are in the wrong place for flood geologists. If the Cambrian strata are basal flood deposits, why dont we find a single buried stump (or spores or pollen grains or leaves or root traces or rhizocretions. . .) in Cambrian deposits, or before the Devonian for that matter?

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

excreationist

Well the creationists would say that the cambrian places are the reefs and things. So how would stumps and pollen grains get all the way out to a reef? And they say that the better climbing animals could get up to higher hills during the flood - so the mammals are found higher than the dinosaurs. (And all the rabbits happened to run up to the hill too rather than stay in their burrows)

BTW, here is an example of catastrophism that strengthened my faith in creationism a lot:

Basically it was preserved very quickly, before it could start dying.

Coragyps

And cypress trees run faster than cycads? Is that because they're less sinful?

Kevin Dorner

Can't... stop... laughing.... Others... wondering why.... Thanks...

Edit: I seem to remember a cartoon with a cypress picking up its roots as an old lady might pick up her skirts and running. That's the mental picture. Thanks for the laugh.

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

ps418

Yeah, and that makes about as much sense as the average YEC argument. First, the only thing like a reef in the Cambrian are archaeothyacid (spelling?) reefs, and stromatolites. All the major reefs I know of are underlain by thousands of feet of Phanerozoic sediments, so they couldn't be preflood reefs.

Also, most 'models' of the flood posit very small preflood oceans (most of the ocean water locked up in a vapor canopy or hydroplate), AND massive preflood forests (to account for the large volume of coal, e.g. Snelling 1986), which makes the absence of such stumps and pollen and spores all the more mysterious.

Patrick

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

Valentine Pontifex

Ken Ham claims that T-Rex was originally a plant eater at <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1280.asp" target="_blank">this</a>spot on AiG's website.

Daggah

Just givin' this a bump so our current resident hard-headed troll can see for himself how AiG and its kin use propaganda, indoctrination techniques, and utter lies and nonsense to forward their position.

Vorkosigan

<a href="http://www.ipcc.ie/infobogwood.html" target="_blank">http://www.ipcc.ie/infobogwood.html</a>

Above is an article on the even longer preservation of wood in bogs, suitable for another creationist stumbling block, dendrochronology.

Michael

ex-robot

Patrick,

FYI, yec have discussed the "fountains of the deep" for ages. Here is one link on this:
<a href="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c010.html" target="_blank">Where did the Water Come From for Noah's Flood?</a>

Most reject the canopy model as it stands as well.

xr

The Lone Ranger

My answers to <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1280.asp" target="_blank">Ken Ham's quiz</a>:

*****

1. Can you marry your relation?
e. Well, since we’re all relatives if you go back far enough, of course. Heck, even if I were to marry a chimpanzee, I’d be marrying a [very distant] relative.

2. Did kangaroos live in the Middle East?
b. No

3. Which of the following best illustrates a prehistoric animal?
e. All of the above. (There were alligators around long before humans started recording their history.)

4. Has God told us when He made Tyrannosaurus rex?
e. Maybe God has spoken to you, but I’ve never heard from him myself. Are you sure those voices in your head aren’t from some other source?

5. Tyrannosaurus rex had teeth up to 15 centimetres (six inches) long. How would this dinosaur originally have been described?
b. As a meat-eater. [Correct me if I’m wrong, but the original description of Tyrannosaurus rex by Osborn clearly stated that this was obviously a carnivorous animal.

6. Where was the Garden of Eden located?
e. 50 miles due west of Shangri-La, and 300 leagues due north of the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.

7. Which statement is most accurate?
f. The Bible is a collection of fables, stories, and myths.

8. Creation scientists and evolutionary scientists:
f. “Creation scientists” are scientists like Osama Bin Laden is a peace-loving pantheist who only wants everybody to come together in the spirit of love and tolerance for all.

9. Most theologians who do not take Genesis literally:
e. Have functioning brains.

10. To completely and properly understand Christian doctrine, one needs to:
e. Have a frontal lobotomy.

11. Darwinian (microbe to man) evolution is:
e. None of the above

12. The book of Genesis is:
f. See question # 7.

13. The meaning of sin is dependent on:
f. The gullibility of the Believer.

*****

As you can see, I spotted all those trick questions right away.

Cheers,

Michael