xorbie

I think so. If you look closely at it, a huge portion of society's problems come from education (or lack thereof). Improving education is so important, but seems to take a back seat to so much else. I believe it was John Edwards who today in the debates supported a "Teacher Core" plan in which teachers would have their college debts absolved if they teach for 5 years where they are needed, just like the Marines. To me, this seems like a great idea. Any ideas on the matter?

Loren Pechtel

I think teachers have the potential to be one of our greatest assets. However, I think there's an awful lot of bad ones out there. I'm not too inclined to pay all teachers more, I would be happy to pay the good ones more.

How about basing teacher pay on the *INCREASE* in the scores on standard tests? Of course this brings up the issue of teaching to the test, but if the test is designed well enough that shouldn't matter.


On the other hand, I'm not sure we need very many teachers. Beyond the first few years good software could take over most teaching tasks. Why waste a human standing up there talking? Rather, what we need is people who can answer questions when someone is stuck.
I have been a lab assistant for a class that was done this way, it worked fine. While technically students could go to the teacher with questions the reality is very soon us lab assistants learned to answer their questions better than the teacher (we saw the same questions far more often.) It worked fine--and this was in the 80's. What you can do with a floppy is rather limited! Modern software would be *FAR* better.

PoliticsForum.Com

If our teachers were thehighest paid public/private servants we would be light years ahead.

The way our teachers are treated is a great shame.

The reason good people who want to be teachers go elsewhere for a career is because of the poor pay.

I remember my match teacher. She was VERY dedicated, very kind and very intelligent and VER poorly paid!

I am surprised she stuck with the job since she had to put up with so many nasty little bastards!

xorbie

I am not saying we should pay teacher's alot, and of course any bad ones should be let go. My point was that in order to attract more qualified people, there should be a "Teacher Core" plan just like the "Marine Core." Absolving college debts would be a huge incentive to teachers, as college debt is often one of the largest financial burden on teachers, as they are no doubt the lowest payed tier amongst the college graduates.

nermal

It always slightly amazes me that people continuously think teachers are underpaid. In general they are not. Sure, in some of the poorer states and rural areas, teacher pay is low, but it is comenserate with the rate of pay for everybody in those areas.

With the exception of those teachers with a math, biology, or chemistry degree (though not now with the tech bust) teachers make about what they should expect. According to the union rules, however, you can't raise the pay for math/science alone.

Consider the pay here in the Denver area. A beginning teacher makes about 31K per year. That's for 180 days of work. Within 6 years or so, they break 40K. This area is real close to the median, by the way.
Now, in private industry, that would equate to 41K to start, and 53K after about 6 years(5*50-9 holidays). Where's the problem?

Teachers aren't underpaid. They just have one hell of a PR campaign going on.

Ed

Kat_Somm_Faen

Now, in private industry, that would equate to 41K to start, and 53K after about 6 years(5*50-9 holidays).

In private industry?

Ummmm what is that supposed to mean? Are you actually calculating teacher per hour pay? Please give us those numbers and not "what private sector would make"...

And if they were not teachers but CEOs they would do even better! How is that an argument that they are actually paid OK?



With the exception of those teachers with a math, biology, or chemistry degree (though not now with the tech bust)

WTF does tech bust have to do with teaching chemistry besides that chemistry is tecnology? Ohh Space Shuttle experienced the tech bust.... now I get it! That there is a tech bust relates in what way to teaching chemistry???

BTW most teachers work 9 months out of a year. There are also plenty year-round schools.

Teachers aren't underpaid. They just have one hell of a PR campaign going on.

And only thing we have for that is you claiming so. I suppose some American Teacher Association is a PR firm...

And BTW when did PR become evil? President does it, both the major parties, police, Army, Navy, corporations, banks ... but it is bad for teachers to do PR ( still keeping in mind we have your word to claim it is in fact PR ).

nermal

I thought the calculation was pretty straight forward--I was making an equivalent comparison of pay for actual time on the job. Most professionals are not paid hourly. Not too difficult.

What do CEO's have to do with anything? How about a fair comparison of people with equivalent education and experience, ie: holders of Bachelor's Degrees.

I'm no analyst, but I have noticed that the break of the tech bubble has affected many I know with non-computer related degrees. In general, people in technical fields are not doing as well as previously, and many are looking to teaching as an alternative. Perhaps biologists are an exception, however, as the biotech sector is supposedly doing very well.

No, most teachers work about 180 days a year. Don't forget two weeks at Christmas, a week for fall break, a week for spring break, every recognized holiday, and weekends. I don't know much about the year round issue overall, but hereabouts they get the same time off, it's just spread out through the year. I would expect teachers who actually work year round would be paid accordingly.

Teachers aren't underpaid. They just have one hell of a PR campaign going on.

It's not the American Teacher Association, it's the National Education Association--the teacher's union. Never claimed there was a firm involved, just a hell of a campaign. How do I know? Because so many people are convinced that teachers work for chump change when they clearly do not. Someone is giving them ideas...
Never said PR was evil, either. You like to put words in people's mouths, I've noticed.

Ed

conkermaniac

The teachers at my school certainly aren't underpaid, but that's probably because I go to a private international school. They make around 50k a year (180 days of school), plus they get vacation packages (one free round-trip airline ticket to wherever), free housing (an apartment in a very nice community!), state-of-the-art technology (at least a computer in every room, if not two additional computers and several laptops with wireless connection), and an easy schedule (3 classes a day). What more could you ask?

nogods4me

Most school systems require students to be in school for about 180-185 days , I suppose this is what you mean by working 180 days a year?
What a load of carp. Teaches show up about a week before school starts, so lets make that 185 days, then they have several professional days while students are off school, so lets say 190 days. and in those 190 days they have to teach for what 6-7 hours per day, grade, plan lessons, tutor students, do extra duty like detention, clubs, sports, and other extra curricular duties. Much of this is done on the teacher's own time evenings and weekends, so for those 190 days they are probably working 10+ hours per day, easily. I am sure there are studies somewhere that show how much time on average a teacher puts in in a week.

Now the average fulltime 9-5 worker works 52 weeks * 5 days= 260 days , minus about 10 holidays, so 250, minus 2 weeks vacation, that leaves 240 days x 8 hours or 1920 hours, or about the same as the 190 10 hour days a teacher puts in. Add to that requirements many states have that teacher must continue to further their education, and thats a real work load.

And comparing a teacher to any 4 year degree holder is hardly fair. Does the humanities major have to student teach for a semester?

If being a teach was as cushy as some here seem to think, why the shortages?

And heck, I didn't even get into the problems in some areas with violence against teachers, poor equipment and facilities and all the other baggage that goes with it.

RED DAVE

Having been a high school teacher for seven years (during the Seventies and Eighties), I have to say that it was the most difficult and rewarding job of my life.

Teachers are still grossly underpaid. They benefits are OK, but don't get seriously ill. The vaction is fucking needed. After teaching for an entire year, the break is needed to recharge one's mental batteries. Likewise, the sabbatical. Incidentally, EVERYONE needs a ten-week vacation and sabbaticals.

RED DAVE