Talulah

I was thinking I could go back to church and listen to a few sermons if I wanted to hear about why God thinks homosexual sex is a sin. Actually, they don't tell you why, but nevermind. I could hear all about how evil and perverted it is despite the lack of a reason.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Talulah ]</p>

Queen of Swords

God considers or considered pretty much everything to be a sin.

- wanting to be like God
- sex with anyone who isn't married to you
- sex during menstruation
- sexual thoughts
- working on the Sabbath
- eating shellfish
- being rich
- lots and lots of others

I'm not surprised homosexuality is included in the interminable list.

Perchance

But why the specific focus on homosexuality?

No one seems to think that working on the Sabbath, eating shellfish, or being rich (to take three examples from the above list) are sins anymore- or perhaps the people who do simply realize that they have no chance of enforcing their opinions as law. But it's still all right to discriminate against homosexuals.

Why is the negative attitude towards this particular "sin" still so dominant? Is it something inherent in Christianity itself, or is it because non-religious people just haven't spoken up to stop it for long enough? Or is it something else? (And even if it were inherent in Christianity, why? Does it serve some special purpose there?)

I'd like an answer to this question (from a theist or someone who understands the mindset), since I, too, don't see what's wrong with two adults having consensual sex, whatever the adults' genders.

-Perchance.

Bree

I too would like an answer regarding the shellfish question. My mother, ever the fundie, said that focussing on "old, outdated laws" like the shellfish law and is ungodly because Jesus wiped out the laws of the Old Testament with His death.

So, why didn't he wipe out the homosexual law? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

St. Robert

The church has sinned against the homosexual community in two major ways:

1. Telling homosexuals that they are not welcome in the church unless they become straight.

2. Telling homosexuals that God accepts their choice to participate in homosexual relationships.

GeoTheo

Here is a hint: I do
Here is another hint: All Christians do
Here is a third hint: The topic is not "Can homosexuality be proven to be immoral. without using references from the BIble"
The topic is ...well look up.

GeoTheo

I would like to debate the question posed by the title of this thread with Scigirl or somebody else in a formal debate, but I think Arrowman kind of already stated my position. Christianity per se does not promote homosexual bigotry, but people use it as justification for political activism.
As far as the other topic proposed for debate.I think debating what the Bible does or does not say ,to people who don't believe the Bible, is a futile exercise as best.
So I would rather not debate that, at least not on an atheist forum.
I also would like to say that I don't spend as much time online as some people here do as I post on library computers only as I don't have one at home right now.So to pose a question and then say somthing like "Oh, I didn't think you had an answer." While I am home sleeping I think is foolish.
I also would like to point out that I am not the only one who is skeptical of the genetic predeterminism explanation for the existence of homosexuality. I have seen people express that same sentiment here on other threads. I guess maybe nobody wants to admit it to a Christian. I also think that the skepticism of many people on this forum does not extend beyond the tenants of Christianity and political conservatism. Beliefs held to be p.c or ones that reflect greater academia seem to be embraced unflinchingly.
That is because, despite what people say, there is much more than "lack in a belief of gods" that ties people together here.
I also would like to say that there really is no big focus on homosexuality within the Church.
However within the humanist community there is a big focus on Christianity's conflict with homosexuality. In 10 years of being a Christian I have not heard on sermon on homosexuality.
I think most people here move in certian circles which places them for the most part among people with whom they agree. I think watching "The 700 club" is as close as most people here come to attending a Church. I don't really think it is an accurate representation.

HelenM

But, GeoTheo, can you see that from a non-Christian's point of view, they are not going to be satisfied with "because the Bible says so!" They will be interested in whether you have any reasons that make sense to them.

If the only reason you have is "Because the Bible says so!" then to them it will appear that Christians have no good reason for being against homosexuality. Since "because the Bible says so!" will carry no weight whatsoever with them.

love
Helen

Talulah

You aren't trying to convince yourself, you are trying to convince us.

Talulah

Christianity is based on the bible and the bible promotes homosexual bigotry. We have already asked you to give a good reason why homosexuality is immoral without using the bible and you have declined to do so. Heck, I am a homosexual atheist and I can come up with some good reasons.

1.) Loose sexual standards
2.) Spread of disease
3.) Lack of stability of homosexual unions
4.) etc, etc, etc.

These have nothing to do with the bible or Christianity. It has to do with each individuals moral code and what they belief to be best for society as a whole.


</strong>

Wise man.

</strong>

I can say the exact opposite, having been part of 'the church' for the last 22 years. I HAVE heard sermons on homosexuality (multiple), as well as read pamplets, heard lectures and seen publications. My grandmother taught me in Sunday school that AIDS was God's punishment for homosexuality, I have seen the sneers and discust on people's faces when they talked in whispers about gays and their 'evil agendas' to make children gay through teaching that it is ok. It is all about when and where. Maybe you move in circles where people agree with you too.