Freethought & Rationalism Archive

seanie · 11-01-2002, 05:51 AM

The key word is necessary.

Nothing requires us to value certain things in certain ways. It's a choice.

We choose not to asign rights to sperm and eggs. We choose to asign rights to fully fledged humans.

Exactly when and how those rights accrue is a matter of choice. And disagreement.

Pseudonymph · 11-01-2002, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie:


Exactly when and how those rights accrue is a matter of choice. And disagreement.

Exactly....so in the meantime we just look the other way and allow killing to continue?

seanie · 11-01-2002, 05:57 AM

Yeah.

Pseudonymph · 11-01-2002, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie:
Yeah.

abe smith · 11-01-2002, 06:24 AM

YESSS GEO THEO; your answer to my post of the 28th>>> That is EXACTLY what I AM saying! The fetus's status as a Person depends ABSOLUTELY on the Mother's definition: "You're NOBODY 'til somebody WANTS you." My position has nothing to do w/ MORALITY. It's about biology and reality. I haven't time right now (running late) to expatiate; but i'll get back to you Probably later today; or maybe who knows.

Pseudonymph · 11-01-2002, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by abe smith:
 "You're NOBODY 'til somebody WANTS you."

What if no one wants you after you're born? What about in old age or in an incapacitated state?

If you say that those people should have a right to live, let me ask you... where do you draw the line?

GeoTheo · 11-01-2002, 06:31 AM

To the people who say the value of human life is realative and arbitrary:
There is no point in debating you. You do not posess even the slightest foundation for a system of morality. The value of human life should be primary to all other considerations. That is the basis of any civilized society. If human life is not valued above the choices of others anything goes and civilization ends. We might as well be a pack of wild dogs or somthing.

seanie · 11-01-2002, 06:40 AM

Human life is generally highly prized. But that's a measure of self-interest to some extent. It's not valued above all other things. We fight wars and kill people because we value some things more than human life.

(At least other peoples human life.)

Pseudonymph · 11-01-2002, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie:
 We fight wars and kill people because we value some things more than human life.

Bad analogy. We go to war because we feel justified in killing people who have "wronged" us.

What has an innocent-unborn child done to deserve death? Why is he or she paying for a mistake the parents made? I have never gotten a straight answer to these questions and I would like one if at all possible.

seanie · 11-01-2002, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirenSpeak:
If you say that those people should have a right to live, let me ask you... where do you draw the line?

You draw the line where you choose to draw the line.

That's the point.

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11-01-2002, 05:51 AM	#81
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	The key word is necessary. Nothing requires us to value certain things in certain ways. It's a choice. We choose not to asign rights to sperm and eggs. We choose to asign rights to fully fledged humans. Exactly when and how those rights accrue is a matter of choice. And disagreement.

11-01-2002, 05:57 AM	#83
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	Yeah.

11-01-2002, 06:24 AM	#85
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	YESSS GEO THEO; your answer to my post of the 28th>>> That is EXACTLY what I AM saying! The fetus's status as a Person depends ABSOLUTELY on the Mother's definition: "You're NOBODY 'til somebody WANTS you." My position has nothing to do w/ MORALITY. It's about biology and reality. I haven't time right now (running late) to expatiate; but i'll get back to you Probably later today; or maybe who knows.

11-01-2002, 06:31 AM	#87
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	To the people who say the value of human life is realative and arbitrary: There is no point in debating you. You do not posess even the slightest foundation for a system of morality. The value of human life should be primary to all other considerations. That is the basis of any civilized society. If human life is not valued above the choices of others anything goes and civilization ends. We might as well be a pack of wild dogs or somthing.

11-01-2002, 06:40 AM	#88
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	Human life is generally highly prized. But that's a measure of self-interest to some extent. It's not valued above all other things. We fight wars and kill people because we value some things more than human life. (At least other peoples human life.)

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