Freethought & Rationalism Archive

fanny666 · 02-12-2003, 01:39 PM

Last night on the radio, I heard Colin Powell talking about the new bin Laden tape, and I got so mad at his lies that I was screaming at the car radio. So I'm going to lay out the definitive dismissal of this whole avenue of propaganda, and I hope people spread the word.

On the new tape- bin Laden's voice can be heard telling the people (key word: PEOPLE) of Iraq to rise up against what he calls "the American Crusade." He tells them to carry out suicide bombings and to "learn from what (the Taliban) has done in Afghanistan" to fight American troops.

Colin Powell called this "More evidence of the link between bin Laden and Baghdad." Ar i Fleisher said the tape was a confirmation that al-Qaeda was "linking up" with the Iraqi regime.

As for the new tape, bin Laden has all sorts of things to say about his enemy Saddam which Powell forgets to bring up. He calls him an "infidel" (who ISN'T an infidel to this nutjob?) and a "pagan regime."

Colin Powell certainly knows that Saddam and bin Laden are sworn enemies, that in fact years ago bin Laden issued a Fatwa on Saddam. Saddam's biggest internal threat has always been radical Islam- that's why he invaded Iran, and that's why we supported him! Because we wanted to halt the spread of Islamic (or any other kind of) nationalism. "Oil is much to precious a commodity to be left in the hands of the Arabs" said Henry Kissinger. That's why we prop up puppet dictators all over the region. When the fall out of line they become evil, and we bring up the horrible things they did while still in out favor and on our payroll.

In Powell's earlier presentation, he claimed that Iraq and al Qaeda have been in contact for "decades".

Um, I don't think so. "Decades" ago, al Qaeda was known as the Mujahadeen and was getting armed and funded by your tax dollars via the CIA. I've seen videotape of Bush Part One- as CIA director- telling them "You are doing God's work." That whole "Thin Line Between A Freedom Fighter And A Terrorist" deal comes into play again.

Then, there was the flat-out propaganda about Mohammed Atta meeting in Prague with Iraqi officials, denied from the first moment by the Czech police. If there were a truly credible link, why the disinformation about Atta in Prague? If there were a truly credible link, wouldn't we have already invaded?

Since the lie about the Prague meeting has long been exposed, now it all rests on this guy Al-Zarqawi , from the radical Islamist group Ansar al-Islam. This group "offered al-Qaida safe haven" according to Powell. But Powell knows perfectly well that Ansar al-Islam operates in Nothern Iraq, which is not even under the control of Saddam, in fact that is where "He gassed his own people" because they were fighting AGAINST him in the Iran-Iraq war! Ok, so Al-Zarqawi went to a hospital in Baghdad- warm up the nukes! Nobody is even trying to link Ansar al-Islam to 9-11, and furthermore the leader of that group- Mullah Krekar- lives in Norway, and the US government has not even requested extradition for so much as an inteview. Maybe that's because he denounces any links with al Qaeda. I get the feeling somebody crashed on somebody's couch and that's about it.

This quote sums it all up:

"...analysts at the Central Intelligence Agency have complained that senior administration officials have exaggerated the significance of some intelligence reports about Iraq, particularly about its possible links to terrorism, in order to strengthen their political argument for war... At the Federal Bureau of Investigation, some investigators said they were baffled by the Bush administration's insistence on a solid link between Iraq and Osama bin Laden's network. 'We've been looking at this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don't think it's there,' a government official said."
NY Times, February 2, 2003

Fleischer dismissed critics who have noted that on the new tape, bin Laden's voice backs the Iraqi people, not Saddam Hussein. "The world cannot afford to be in denial," Fleischer said.

But when bin Laden says things like-
"We are following with utmost concern the Crusaders' preparations to occupy the former capital of Islam [Baghdad], loot the fortunes of the Muslims and install a puppet regime on you that follows its masters in Washington and Tel Aviv like the rest of the treacherous puppet Arab governments as a prelude to the formation of Greater Israel." -
this resonates with the people of Iraq because it is the TRUTH. This is exactly, concisely, what Bush is planning to do, what he has planned to do from day one, and unless we realize that THIS is why bin Laden is "winning the propaganda war" we are in a dangerous denial. And, in the words of Ari, we can't afford it.

Incidentally, the minute that Fox announced Bush's "victory" a couple Novembers ago, I knew we'd be going to war with Iraq to install a new dictator. If I knew it, then bin Laden knew it, and I see no reason that he wouldn't pre-record an audio tape on the subject to perpetuate his mythology after he was killed.

Zar · 02-12-2003, 04:39 PM

Try this LA Times article as well.

Quote:

Depressing as it is to acknowledge, it now seems clear we are witnessing the tantrum of a woefully untutored and inexperienced president whose willfulness rises in direct proportion to his inability to comprehend a world too complex for his grasp.

leonarde · 02-12-2003, 04:59 PM

Posted by Zar:

Quote:

Try this LA Times article as well.[...]

It's not an "article"; it's an
opinion piece. That you can't distinguish between
the two is symptomatic....

Cheers!

fanny666 · 02-12-2003, 05:21 PM

Please do not turn my thread into another moronic series of quotes from the dictionary : "THIS is the definition of 'article'" etc.

Anyway, I wanted to say that according to a (damn good) journalist for CBS
Donald Rumsfeld started the ball rolling on the (already planned) attack on Iraq
within five hours of the first 9-11 attack.

Answerer · 02-12-2003, 05:52 PM

The evil that never die.

Anyway, is Osama and Saddam putting on a show to tell the world that they are actually 'enemies'?

Slavik91 · 02-12-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Answerer
The evil that never die.

Anyway, is Osama and Saddam putting on a show to tell the world that they are actually 'enemies'?

Its more likely that Bush, Saddam and Osama are all working together for joint world domination... or at least to install a Kentucky Fried Camel in Baghdad.

Zar · 02-12-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Answerer
The evil that never die.

Anyway, is Osama and Saddam putting on a show to tell the world that they are actually 'enemies'?

Anything is possible, but is this likely? How do you reckon this?

It seems like you first need to assume the very thing that has not yet been established -- that Saddam and al-Qaeda are in bed with each other. And they would need to be quite committed to each other to agree on a unified propaganda strategy, which doesn't seem like a plausible situation. And nothing in the past behavior of al-Qaeda has indicated that they actually really support the regimes they claim to hate. There seems to be a high degree of consistency between word and deed, which makes for a kind of "criminal" integrity for lack of a better term.

queue · 02-13-2003, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Its more likely that Bush, Saddam and Osama are all working together for joint world domination... or at least to install a Kentucky Fried Camel in Baghdad.

Does camel taste like chicken?

ZiprHead · 02-13-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by queue
Does camel taste like chicken?

Everything tastes like chicken.

Godless Sodomite · 02-13-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZiprHead
Everything tastes like chicken.

Except people. If last Sunday's HBO documentary on cannibal serial killers is to be believed, we taste like pork.

-Jerry

02-12-2003, 01:39 PM	#1
fanny666 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Boulder CO Posts: 177	Iraq and al-Qaeda Last night on the radio, I heard Colin Powell talking about the new bin Laden tape, and I got so mad at his lies that I was screaming at the car radio. So I'm going to lay out the definitive dismissal of this whole avenue of propaganda, and I hope people spread the word. On the new tape- bin Laden's voice can be heard telling the people (key word: PEOPLE) of Iraq to rise up against what he calls "the American Crusade." He tells them to carry out suicide bombings and to "learn from what (the Taliban) has done in Afghanistan" to fight American troops. Colin Powell called this "More evidence of the link between bin Laden and Baghdad." Ar i Fleisher said the tape was a confirmation that al-Qaeda was "linking up" with the Iraqi regime. As for the new tape, bin Laden has all sorts of things to say about his enemy Saddam which Powell forgets to bring up. He calls him an "infidel" (who ISN'T an infidel to this nutjob?) and a "pagan regime." Colin Powell certainly knows that Saddam and bin Laden are sworn enemies, that in fact years ago bin Laden issued a Fatwa on Saddam. Saddam's biggest internal threat has always been radical Islam- that's why he invaded Iran, and that's why we supported him! Because we wanted to halt the spread of Islamic (or any other kind of) nationalism. "Oil is much to precious a commodity to be left in the hands of the Arabs" said Henry Kissinger. That's why we prop up puppet dictators all over the region. When the fall out of line they become evil, and we bring up the horrible things they did while still in out favor and on our payroll. In Powell's earlier presentation, he claimed that Iraq and al Qaeda have been in contact for "decades". Um, I don't think so. "Decades" ago, al Qaeda was known as the Mujahadeen and was getting armed and funded by your tax dollars via the CIA. I've seen videotape of Bush Part One- as CIA director- telling them "You are doing God's work." That whole "Thin Line Between A Freedom Fighter And A Terrorist" deal comes into play again. Then, there was the flat-out propaganda about Mohammed Atta meeting in Prague with Iraqi officials, denied from the first moment by the Czech police. If there were a truly credible link, why the disinformation about Atta in Prague? If there were a truly credible link, wouldn't we have already invaded? Since the lie about the Prague meeting has long been exposed, now it all rests on this guy Al-Zarqawi , from the radical Islamist group Ansar al-Islam. This group "offered al-Qaida safe haven" according to Powell. But Powell knows perfectly well that Ansar al-Islam operates in Nothern Iraq, which is not even under the control of Saddam, in fact that is where "He gassed his own people" because they were fighting AGAINST him in the Iran-Iraq war! Ok, so Al-Zarqawi went to a hospital in Baghdad- warm up the nukes! Nobody is even trying to link Ansar al-Islam to 9-11, and furthermore the leader of that group- Mullah Krekar- lives in Norway, and the US government has not even requested extradition for so much as an inteview. Maybe that's because he denounces any links with al Qaeda. I get the feeling somebody crashed on somebody's couch and that's about it. This quote sums it all up: "...analysts at the Central Intelligence Agency have complained that senior administration officials have exaggerated the significance of some intelligence reports about Iraq, particularly about its possible links to terrorism, in order to strengthen their political argument for war... At the Federal Bureau of Investigation, some investigators said they were baffled by the Bush administration's insistence on a solid link between Iraq and Osama bin Laden's network. 'We've been looking at this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don't think it's there,' a government official said." NY Times, February 2, 2003 Fleischer dismissed critics who have noted that on the new tape, bin Laden's voice backs the Iraqi people, not Saddam Hussein. "The world cannot afford to be in denial," Fleischer said. But when bin Laden says things like- "We are following with utmost concern the Crusaders' preparations to occupy the former capital of Islam [Baghdad], loot the fortunes of the Muslims and install a puppet regime on you that follows its masters in Washington and Tel Aviv like the rest of the treacherous puppet Arab governments as a prelude to the formation of Greater Israel." - this resonates with the people of Iraq because it is the TRUTH. This is exactly, concisely, what Bush is planning to do, what he has planned to do from day one, and unless we realize that THIS is why bin Laden is "winning the propaganda war" we are in a dangerous denial. And, in the words of Ari, we can't afford it. Incidentally, the minute that Fox announced Bush's "victory" a couple Novembers ago, I knew we'd be going to war with Iraq to install a new dictator. If I knew it, then bin Laden knew it, and I see no reason that he wouldn't pre-record an audio tape on the subject to perpetuate his mythology after he was killed.

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02-12-2003, 05:21 PM	#4
fanny666 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Boulder CO Posts: 177	Please do not turn my thread into another moronic series of quotes from the dictionary : "THIS is the definition of 'article'" etc. Anyway, I wanted to say that according to a (damn good) journalist for CBS Donald Rumsfeld started the ball rolling on the (already planned) attack on Iraq within five hours of the first 9-11 attack.

02-12-2003, 05:52 PM	#5
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	The evil that never die. Anyway, is Osama and Saddam putting on a show to tell the world that they are actually 'enemies'?

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