David Mathews

Hello King bud,

David: Of course the only thing that is real is Jesus. All humans will die, all stars will die, all galaxies will die and the universe itself ultimately will die.

You call of of this real and yet in reality it is nothing much. Everything you treasure you will lose.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

HelenM

If you care about your own happiness and you love your neighbor as yourself (the definition of 'neighbor' including the other people here) doesn't that mean you also care about the happiness of the other people who post here?

In what sense does 'love your neighbor' have meaning to you?

I know, I know...irrelevant question...

love
Helen

Mageth

If you care about your own happiness and you love your neighbor as yourself (the definition of 'neighbor' including the other people here) doesn't that mean you also care about the happiness of the other people who post here?

Why should he, if they're not real anyway?

HelenM

I was wondering whether that was why. But he probably thinks he's no more real than you are. So I still say he should care equally, based on your respective 'realnesses' and that Bible verse.

OTOH, maybe his beliefs make him realler, somehow...I dunno. I don't understand his views on what is real and what isn't, very well, since they are new and unfamiliar to me.

love
Helen

99Percent

David Matthews: Of course the only thing that is real is Jesus.

How do you determine this? How do you know this is true?

All humans will die, all stars will die, all galaxies will die and the universe itself ultimately will die.

While I live the stars are certainly real, they exist, while I live *I* am real. That is good enough for me. I wonder why your existence is not good enough for you.

sir drinks-a-lot

I am not real.

HelenM

I was reading a bit of <a href="http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1/Introduction.html" target="_blank">your site</a>, David...

Interesting...

love
Helen

Ryanfire

We all believe (1) is true, I mean we're here aren't we? I wouldn't be writing this if it weren't true. So lets disect david's beliefs.

1) Humans exist in reality(real).
2) Humans die in reality.
3) Humans then cease to exist.
4) Therefore, humans are not real, could only exist outside reality. (contradicts 1 and is fallicious, oh well ).
5) Outside reality exists god.
6) Humans only comprehend reality

Conclusion:
7) Therefore, we do not comprehend gods existence. (5 and 6)

8) Therefore, humans must exist outside reality(2-4), as humans do exist in reality (1)

9) Therefore we are god. (5 and 8)

Unless you can prove we do not exist in reality (1), you have NOTHING. And if I must, I will quote you on the statements above. (1-6). You also stated contradictions are necessary (4).

Or..

Do you consider humans to be god?

[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Ryanfire ]

[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Ryanfire ]</p>

agapeo

We interrupt this program to bring you the following important announcement.

Hello David and thanks for the reply, however (and no need to respond since I know you would rather not get drawn into aside issues)I have this on my mind and therefore thought I'd speak it. Since we are at liberty to speak whatever is on our minds, as you say.

"David: I talk to all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons."

I didn't ask you for all of them. One would of sufficed.

"I don't concern myself with the expectations of others and I don't care if what I write makes anyone happy."

Then can I assume that you are a hermit. It must be a lonely life if you don't care about other people's feelings.

"If you are happy, you are happy for your own self; if you are sad, you are sad for your own self."

Yeah, somewhat true, but isn't it strange how others can contribute to those ends.

"If the atheists are not happy that is just pitiable for them but of no consequence to me."

Yeah, somewhat true, since you might favor being a hermit, what difference does it make if you don't care what effect your words have on others. But then, if you care so little about what others feel or think, then why bother speaking to them. They can be such a nusence.

Sincerely, something or other (I don't know since I don't really care)

agapeo

You may now resume you regularly scheduled program. If this had been an actual emergency you'd all be dead, since I really don't care.

madmax2976

David has posted this drivel several times so I'll take the opportunity to demonstrate the falsity of it specifically.

Atheism is the lack of belief in or the denial of the existence of any God or Gods. (Of couse David always likes to leave off the lack of belief definition because it seems to suit him for some reason.)

What would be considered "positive" about something is a personal judgement call that is derived from that something.

Some of easily derived positives for atheism could be:

- Its closer to the truth than any theisms appear to be.

- It has potential for forming a good foundation for averting the illogical dogmatism that accompanies many theisms.

- Its the more honest position in that it encompasses the position "I don't know" which is the actual case for many things, particularly the mysteries that theists like to bring up in support of their deity.

- It does not multiply entities beyond necessity which is a well-supported principle of science.

- It offers mortality, as oppsed to an endless immortality. (Which some do prefer)

A lot of these would depend upon which theism we're talking about of course. There is no "theism" per se, but many theisms of many different stripes.

Of course what Dave has missed here in his little attempt to disparage atheism is that what is "positive" is a subjective judgement call. Thus he may determine that there is nothing positive about it and we may determine there are things postive about it.

We may also determine that Christianity's positives do not outweight its negatives.

We may also determine that we can derive the same postives from atheism that Christianity does, without the negatives. My atheism forms the foundation for my naturalism and my humanism, from which I derive love and caring for my fellow human beings. It also forms the foundation for my natural pantheism, which allows me to appreciate all of nature and to recognize I am a part of it. The universe is my home - not something I dream of escape from in some afterlife.

So we see that David is not only wrong in his assessment of atheism, he didn't even know what he was talking about.