yguy

Lack of a sense of fulfillment has been pretty much epidemic at least since WWII, perhaps the last time this nation had a sense of purpose. I seriously doubt that you can show me any...umm...empirical data to the effect that those in traditional families are more likely to be unhappy than others. From my perspective, you could easily be unconsciously magnifying the discontent you see in these other women so as to justify a sense of relative satisfaction in yourself.

HelenM

I think you're being too simplistic about it. If you talk to people who have had experience with a lot of young children, I think they will tell you that separation anxiety varies from child to child; it's not entirely predictable which children will have it and which won't and at which age it might manifest itself, if it does at all.

Helen

fatherphil

this sounds like most women i know, working or otherwise, if not a majority of men as well

at the risk of repeating myself (i really want your feedback on this question):

brig, is there an age where the child is just too young to deal with seperation in a normal, healthy way? perhaps this thread is an attempt to ask what the norm age that is. if a consensus can be reached that infants are never mature enough to handle this type of trauma in a healty way, we would be making progress here.

Roland98

Or perhaps since the time when the "Leave It To Beaver"-esque stereotype started taking hold, trying to shoehorn women into a role many didn't want?

It really is amazing to me that people still hold stereotypes of women that are so dated as to be absurd.

Vylo

Right on the nose roland



yep that is the 50's nostalgia I was refering to

Actually I believe I can. Unfortunately I am at work and do not have the reference on me, but I should have it for you by monday. If you are feeling adventurous though, and would like to check it out for yourself look at the book "Families in Transition" by Skolnick. There are a few readings where they talk to mothers about their discontent, and I believe they do give an empirical figure for it. There is also the fact that tranquilizers were of very common use for housewives of that era, especially those suffering from "empty nest" syndrome.

brighid

I haven't found any study that states there is an inappropriate age and children who are cared for in a secure, healthy, loving environment regardless of age should be able to deal with separation in a normal, healthy way.

I would generally agree, for those mothers who are breastfeeding, that it is easier to return to work after one year as one year of breastfeeding is the recommended period of time. However, in the US we do not have parental leave/maternity leave policies that allow for this. I breast fed my son for over a year and he was in private day care from 3 months on. It was difficult at first but pumping worked well for me.

I would like to see a social structure that better supports families, especially parents of new babies to meet that "ideal" situation, but let's face it ... we don't live in an ideal society. We live in one that place a very low value on parenting and family, despite the lip service conservative organizations give to "family values."

Many European provide excellent and successful societal support structures for the US to follow. Sweden and the Netherlands being at the top.

I see no evidence that a child is permanently impaired by separation from a parent, either early in infancy or later as a toddler or adolescent when placed in competent and safe environments. There are certain stages of development where separation anxiety develops and is more pronounced, but there are positive and healthy ways of dealing with this normal behavior.

Brighid

Vylo

Brig, netherlands definetly place more trust in their children's sexuality then we do here, there is another article pertaining to that in the book I listed.

Society tends not to support current family structures due to instituitions having different and often conflicting ideologies. While your family institution wants you to be one thing, your work institution wants you to be something else. If our employer's institutions held more of the same ideological views as the family, there would be a lot less friction between them.

brighid

That is an excellent point. Many employers don't care one way or another about family, or how those attitudes negatively impact their bottom line.

My husband works for a rather progressive company. He is allowed a lot of flexibility and encouraged to take time to spend with family, attend to his child when sick, etc. His company has a liberal vacation and sick time policy. They also have structured family events. Their "Bring your Kid to Work Day" is quite a production. They are also encourage to take a 6 week sabbatical every 4-5 years. They have a good policy supporting family leave (although it isn't a year or longer) and adoption assistance, etc. They also reward their employees for a job well done with merit based bonuses each year.

This breeds a lasting and strong loyalty amongs the employees and their overall retention rate is rather high. Employees that leave looking for greener pastures often return.

I have a great deal of flexibility as well, but I certainly couldn't take a year off and have a job when I came back. Unfortunately with college not that far away for our son, cost of music, acting and sports lessons and simply the cost of living in an area that is safe, has excellent schools and community activities ... well I don't foresee myself ever being able to stop working. It may even postpone, even indefinately our ability to have another child.

I like Sweden's policy of paying a mother and/or father 80-90% of their prematernity salary while one leave (and I can't remember the exact figure but I believe they have at least one year of leave time for both or either parent.)

I also remember when I was in Germany being very impressed with the daycare centers I visited (a friend was a teacher there) and my German friends were shocked at how much I paid a month for full-time care. My weekly payment was greater then their monthly payment at a facility superior to what my child attended.

Brighid

fatherphil

what is ideal & why?

Vylo

The "ideal" as most people know it is the traditional family, a biological unit consisting of a breadwinner father (working father), housekeeping and caretaking wife, and their 2-3 children who were obidient and disciplined. This was considered to be ideal as it was a very stable and predictable environment, and even though it was oppressive towards women, many of them still have a longing for that stability.

Many people look back to the 1950's thinking this was a period when this was prominent, but only a minority of families ever came close to the "ideal" family structure. People continue to have some type of nostalgic longing for the traditional family, despite the fact that it is an oppressive, outdated model, that would have trouble surviving in today's society (Economic restraints often require both parents to work). The more modern models of family which are forming aren't "perfect", but they are much more egalitarian then the traditional, where the man accepts more of the child raising and housekeeping, and women, many eagerly, head off for work to help support the family. It is a shame that class ceilings and wage disparity are still a problem for women, as we so desperately need women to enter our workforce to encourage economic growth.