Freethought & Rationalism Archive

telemachus · 07-24-2001, 01:08 PM

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Yin and Yang is simpler.

Sure it is. But most people tend to think that daoism is nonsense, so they don't look at the wisdom underlying it.

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This is also how I ended up believing what I do. It was a grand coming-together of different ideas from different places. Theories of existence cannot be excluive. They have to encompass everything.

I agree. But it seems that not many others can understand that the scientific method doesn't provide all the answers we need.

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The Alchemists were not trying to find a chemical elixir to life. That was just a metaphor.

That is what i concluded.

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All is number.

Yes, i see that now. I have reached this understanding on many previous occasions but i kept on wondering if there was something else i was overlooking. There isn't.

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You may have even more time than you think you do. How old are you? I am 32.

I'm 24. I know i have plenty of time but learning about everything has become my reason for living and i can't rest. I'm down to five hours sleep a night as it is.

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I come from a scientific background. I studied 3 science A-levels and have read New Scientist since I was at school. For a job I work on the artificial intelligence side of military simulation systems.

I've studied mathematics for most of my education.

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The other passion of my life is music, and writing songs.

I was also in a band until recently, and wrote all of our songs (if you could call them that...).

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I eventually came to the conclusion that 0 = 1 + -1 was a pattern that appeared all over the place, especially when searching for truth. It appears all over the roots of science, it appears all over art, it appears in our lives. Maths can also be said to start from this equation.

I think it is this pattern recognition that leads to understanding, not the mere accumulation of knowledge.

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I also concluded that the material world was really just 'information' and that the two biggest miracles - DNA and consciousness - also were fundamentally information-based. Thus I concluded there was no God apart from mathematics. I came to similar conclusions about music. I am still in a band and songwriting is an essential part of what I am. Music is hugely important to me.

It seems impossible to me that anyone could look into music beyond the superficial and not conclude that it is based on fundamental rules no less than is mathematics. Indeed, i would rather say that music and all other phenomenon are just those expressions of mathematics that can impact upon our senses. The way you describe it i can appreciate why people would call a piece of music or a building "divine".

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I ended up here looking for material to de-brainwash a Christian, but became absorbed in the historical library here (check it out). I eventually started making posts about my ideas, got attacked by atheists skeptics, and much to my surprise I was backed up strongly by Buddhists. At the same time I was explaining my maths theory to someone and he pointed out the similarity to Yin and Yang. I have been here ever since, trying to convince people. It has proved surprisingly persuasive to wavering Christians, has been met with enthusiam by adgerents to Eastern philosophy, and has severely pissed off both the hard-line Christians and the atheist skeptics.

I haven't been here long but i have noticed that most members have their minds open to some possibilities, but not to others. I think it's got to be all or nothing - the former if we want to learn.

I've been studying economics in considerable depth recently, hoping to find something practical that would test my theories. In this endeavour also, i ended-up back at the a priori. Everything is information, tending toward balance. It's all there is the daoist and other texts, if only you look for it.

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: telemachus ]</p>

telemachus · 07-24-2001, 01:13 PM

Demosthenes:

Please accept my apologies if i've taken this thread somewhere you didn't want it to go. I don't mean to butt in but i believe thinker is on to something here.

Demosthenes · 07-24-2001, 01:53 PM

that's alright, I'm curious to see where this will lead to. I'm intrigued by what thinker is saying.

thinker · 07-24-2001, 03:50 PM

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Originally posted by Demosthenes:
<STRONG>that's alright, I'm curious to see where this will lead to. I'm intrigued by what thinker is saying.</STRONG>

Are you following the philosophy of mathematics thread?
http://www.infidels.org/electronic/f...1&t=000240&p=1

telemachus · 07-25-2001, 01:31 PM

Can i ask the both of you a question?

Given the results of your investigations thus far (and here i mean thinker in particular), do you consider life to have any purpose or meaning?

I ask in a general sense: is it all pointless? Does it only have whatever meaning we choose to give it? Or is there something more to it than that?

I'll understand if you don't think this is a fair or well-posed question. I'm guessing that you'll both answer yes, and i want to know if i'm completely wrong.

In order to be fair, i should say that i think it does. I'll tell you more if you're interested...

thinker · 07-25-2001, 02:12 PM

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Originally posted by telemachus:

Can i ask the both of you a question?

Given the results of your investigations thus far (and here i mean thinker in particular), do you consider life to have any purpose or meaning?

Beyond 'to reproduce' I'm in murky water. I think it may be described as the Universe becoming aware of itself. We may be destined to evolve into God. I dunno. Big question. No clear answer.

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I ask in a general sense: is it all pointless?

Maybe.

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Does it only have whatever meaning we choose to give it? Or is there something more to it than that?

There could be more to it.

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I'll understand if you don't think this is a fair or well-posed question. I'm guessing that you'll both answer yes, and i want to know if i'm completely wrong.

My answer is possibly, and I'd like it to be probably.

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In order to be fair, i should say that i think it does. I'll tell you more if you're interested..

I'm interested, but cautious.

telemachus · 07-27-2001, 04:01 AM

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I think it may be described as the Universe becoming aware of itself. We may be destined to evolve into God.

That's what i guessed you'd think.

thinker · 07-27-2001, 05:20 AM

Are you aware of transhumanism/extropianism?
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode.../extropianism/

telemachus · 07-27-2001, 10:53 AM

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Are you aware of transhumanism/extropianism?

I am now. What do you make of it?

Demosthenes · 07-27-2001, 12:05 PM

It happens that I'm quite familiar with the transhumanism movement, having given it thought for years. I consider myself to be a libertarian transhumanist in many respects. You should also look over the premiere site by Anders, Transhumanism resources

And thinker, I'm also following the Philosophy of Mathematics thread. I admit, I'm not fully sure I understand where it's all leading to.

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07-24-2001, 01:13 PM	#12
telemachus Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Far away from IIDB Posts: 218	Demosthenes: Please accept my apologies if i've taken this thread somewhere you didn't want it to go. I don't mean to butt in but i believe thinker is on to something here.

07-24-2001, 01:53 PM	#13
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	that's alright, I'm curious to see where this will lead to. I'm intrigued by what thinker is saying.

07-25-2001, 01:31 PM	#15
telemachus Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Far away from IIDB Posts: 218	Can i ask the both of you a question? Given the results of your investigations thus far (and here i mean thinker in particular), do you consider life to have any purpose or meaning? I ask in a general sense: is it all pointless? Does it only have whatever meaning we choose to give it? Or is there something more to it than that? I'll understand if you don't think this is a fair or well-posed question. I'm guessing that you'll both answer yes, and i want to know if i'm completely wrong. In order to be fair, i should say that i think it does. I'll tell you more if you're interested...

07-27-2001, 05:20 AM	#18
thinker Banned Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: England Posts: 172	Are you aware of transhumanism/extropianism? http://www.infidels.org/library/mode.../extropianism/

07-27-2001, 12:05 PM	#20
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	It happens that I'm quite familiar with the transhumanism movement, having given it thought for years. I consider myself to be a libertarian transhumanist in many respects. You should also look over the premiere site by Anders, Transhumanism resources And thinker, I'm also following the Philosophy of Mathematics thread. I admit, I'm not fully sure I understand where it's all leading to.

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