Philosoft

Already dealt with by Jack the Bodiless...

<strong> Granted.

<strong> Either provide a list of attributes that defines a "perfect Christian" or stop asserting this. And I'm going to keep calling you on it.

ex-preacher

According to standard dogma, God created Satan. Why didn't God destroy Satan after he fell? Is Satan somehow necessary to God? Does he do God's dirty work for him? Based on Job 1-2, Satan can do no harm without God's permission. Why does God give Satan such permission so often?

Is it your understanding that Satan controls the weather and invented influenza?

<strong> As much as might want to deny it, the Invisible Pink Unicorn is not your enemy. She loves you, but the invisible groundhog is your enemy and will do anything to keep you from the IPU's love.

[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: ex-preacher ]</p>

MrDarwin

What do you think the complete absence of God is like?

But I think you've missed my point. The concept of eternal damnation was not conceived by the damned, it was conceived by the creator who, being omniscient and omnipotent, chose to create the universe in such a way, and have events unfold in such a way, that this would come about knowing fully well, right from the start, that the eternal damnation of billions of souls would be one of the results of his/her/its creation.

So are you suggesting that this deity had no idea what the horrendous results of its creation would be?

Or are you suggesting that an omniscient and omnipotent deity was not able to achieve his/her/its ends without it including the eternal suffering of his/her/its own creations?

Or are you suggesting that this deity wants its creations to suffer, not just on earth, but eternally?

(Edited to say that Jack has pretty much summed it up for me:

[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

MrDarwin

Oh no no no, you don't seem to realize that if God does it, it is not murder by definition. And if God orders a human to do it, it also isn't murder.

God makes the rules, and the rules clearly don't apply to him/her/itself. Quite some example to set for the rest of us.

MrDarwin

Hmmm.... so when perfect, omniscient, omnipotent God created this creature called Satan, God had no idea that he/she/it had created Satan to be so flawed that Satan would rebel? God had no idea what mischief this creature would cause?

Or did God create Satan to be perfect, and part of that perfection was that Satan had to rebel against God?

Here's my big question, which has yet to be answered by anybody to whom I have posed it:

Is it possible for God to do anything that has unintended consequences?

See, that omniscience raises some pretty sticky questions...

RJS

Hobbs says

Brigihd says

then Brighid asks

The answer to your question is contained in this post. Also, I was busy responding to the pack of wolves that showed up once they heard a new Christian poster had arrived. ex-Preacher couldnt believe how his thread had grown - all as a result of one Christian . Must be boring around here without fresh meat.

ex-preacher

You're quite right, it does get slow around here without Christian posters. Please stay and play with us. The Christians who venture into this realm usually either deconvert or run away. Only a handful stick around for the long haul. Feel free to bring in your Christian friends if you want to even the odds. It would make it even more interesting.

free12thinker

Well, it's perfectly natural for people who sign up to a debate forum, to well....debate. And since we (atheists) agree with one another on a lot of topics, it would therefore seem perfectly natural that when a Christian enters the fray--they would spice up the debate. Get it? It isn't a 'pack of wolves', kind of thing. You have a differing opinion than us, and that sparks debate. We like debate. We like thinking. We like reasoning. And things like that.

RJS

Sounds like freethinker and ex-preacher can now debate whether you are a pack of wolves

ex-preacher

We're very friendly wolves! Come closer my dear.