York

lol, thats pretty funny. im not pretending though roflmao

btw once i have some counter points im going back to the site that makes the accusations and asking them wtf.

it was stupidest of me to believe that inteligent people wouldnt have the same potential to be idiots like anyone else

Godless Dave

To TomboyMom: settle down. When I read York's opening post I took him either as a covert anti-Semite or a naiive kid. Since I have never read the Talmud or Tanakh I could not verify the verses he quoted, although I was very suspicious of the ones about Jesus since I was pretty sure the Talmud was completed well before Jesus's time. But then emotional, who was raised an Orthodox Jew and lives in Israel, confirmed their veracity.

Of course "Did the holocaust really happen?" and calling David Duke "intelligent" were big red flags, but I still thought it possible that York was a naiive kid, much like the ones we get in EC quoting Hovind. If that were the case, it seemed more effective to calmly point out the errors in York's information instead of jumping on a soapbox and adopting a shrill victim mentality.

Yes, 6 million Jewish people were murdered in the Holocaust. The lucky survivors were robbed of liberty and property. And it was just the culmination of centuries of European anti-Semitism. And, yes, there are those who would bring those days back, including vile scumbags like David Duke. But that does not exempt Jewish scripture from the same critical analysis to which we subject the Bible, Quran, or any other influential religious text. Especially when there are some Israeli citizens who use scripture to justify siezure of Palestinian land, shooting up mosques, and assassinating Yitzhak Rabin.

To York: the Holocaust really happened, and David Duke is not particularly intelligent. Even if he were, a quick study of history would show you that intelligent people are quite capable of lying in order to manipulate people. That's where all these religious texts came from!

TomboyMom

No, it is not called hiding facts. It is called refuting lies. Lies are not facts; they are the opposite of facts. I am afraid that susceptible lightweights like yourself might believe them and act on them, which is dangerous.
The Jews don't need to be defended. What have the Jews ever done to you? I repeat repeat repeat the Gentiles murdered--that's right murdered--my grandparents, aunts, uncles..basically everyone in the neighborhood where my mother grew up except for one gentile family. My mother grew up in the Jewish quarter of Amsterdam, which was a large, thriving community. There no longer is a Jewish quarter of Amsterdam, because almost all the people that lived there were killed in the gas chambers of Auschwitz. Those are the facts. How would you feel about Jews if we had killed your family and everyone in the neighborhood where you grew up? And you want to come in here and ask if Judaism is evil? 2 key points:
-It wasn't Jews that did that (after centuries of oppression, discrimination, theft and murder) it was your people--the Gentiles. Which group is evil?
-These actions are justified and provoked by these kinds of racist lies. That's why they need to be suppressed, and if you irresponsibly disseminate them, you share responsibility for these evil acts.

Now who's being oversensitive, Spaz? If you're not Jewish you are a gentile. It's not an insult, just a descriptive term meaning "non-Jew." (Except in Utah, where it means non-Mormon.) And the facts are that gentiles have been slaughtering Jews for centuries. You may not like to acknowledge that, but it's true. Just the facts. Telling the truth is not in anyway equivalent to racist lies.

Wrong again. There are no two sides here. This has not been a history of mutual conflict. There are the perpretators ( Gentiles) and the victims (Jews). The Gentiles have been committing unprovoked atrocities against us for centuries, with no retaliation on our part. Why on earth you have done this (and I include you, York, because of your post) is a mystery to me. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what is wrong with Gentiles that has caused them to commit massacres and genocide for hundreds of years?

Rene

York

im sorry you are so discombobulated over this issue tomboymom. i find our use of the term gentile rude and take offense. gentile is not much different then calling someone a nigger or nip. at least to me im taking it like that but that may have to do with the context your using it in this thread.

now im going to ask that you tomboymom stop posting in my thread. your not helping me in anyway.
edit->actualy you gave me a link. thanks<-

i dont doubt your family was killed. theres no doubt there was hate towards jews from the nazis. im sure they killed jews on the street like in the movies.

there is evidence showing that no gas chambers or mass cremations happened though. this is the holocaust im referring to. shooting people in the street is obviously messed up. herding people like cattle and sending them to gas chambers then ovens is another matter. numbers and events do not seem to add up.

one of the numbers that dont add up is 6 million jews killed in the war. you use 7 million for whatever reason though. anyway aushwitz was discovered to not be a death camp. it was reconciled that roughly 3 million should not be counted bring the total to around 3 million. that number is also considered high by many.

theres alot for me to read up on. sorry about your family tomboymom. its not right to kill or treat people like the nazis treated jews and the jews treat palestines now.

Godless Dave

That's just silly. "Gentile" has been a socially acceptable term for a long time. I'm not aware of it ever being used as a perjorative. The term "goy" is more casual but I don't even find that offensive.

That is a totally inappropriate request.

There is no such evidence. Someone has lied to you.

That is completely untrue. Auschwitz was a death camp. Ever been there? You can still see the gas chambers and crematorium. If you can't make it to Poland or Germany, try to get to DC and visit the Holocaust Museum. Expect to be depressed for the rest of your trip.

You do have a lot to read up on. Make sure it's from credible sources. David Duke was a KKK bigwig and is a known racist.

And, much as I am not a fan of how Israel treats the Palestinians, it is not a valid comparison. Israel's campaign of land seizure, disenfranchisement, and economic warfare is bad, but it does not rise close to the level of the Nazi campaign of systematic mass murder.

While I am sure there are a few whackos in Israel who would love to clear out the occupied territories with a few neutron bombs or chemical weapons, so far they do not have any significant politcal power over there.

Spaz

I realize what gentiles are tomboymom, maybe it would've been clearer if I had just said that calling someone a gentile and blaming gentiles is the stupidest thing ever. Creating some kind of race that's non-Jew is dumb, there are around 14 million Jews, which means the gentiles consist of around 5 billion 986 million people, it's basically like getting shot and telling the cops it was a white guy. Yeah, very descriptive. This worked back when the Jews thought the whole world consisted of them and a couple other people they didn't like so they said god liked them more, but today it doesn't, it's just old bigotry like the racist lies that york was asking questions about. You're wrong that things like this need to be suppressed, they need to be openly dismantled so that people can see that they are wrong, suppressing things just makes more racists because they don't know that it's wrong, it's just suppressed. You seem to have a very "Them vs. Us" mentality about the whole thing and that just breeds more racism, but I just took york as somebody that had never heard of it before and was asking questions, the only way people learn is by asking questions, there's nothing wrong with that.

York

ok request withdrawn. that wasnt a bad comeback :-)

peace out:notworthy i need to read not argue here ok.

more links would be cool from whoever has pertinent info.

Godless Dave

York, the reason people haven't responded to this yet is because we learned most of this in high school history classes. So unlike, say, evolution or Biblical criticism we don't have a list of Holocaust websites handy. If you want to discuss the Holocaust and the Nazi era I suggest opening a thread in Political Discussions. But if you want stuff to read a web search would help, and a trip to the local library would help even more. In the meantime I'll try to search up some stuff.

enrious

Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It?


Edited for Amazon/IIDB partnership link

Arken

Here, York. Here's some photos for you and your nonexistant holocaust. I'm providing these as links because many are pretty disturbing, IMO.

Here is a nonexistant mass grave of Jews killed at Auschwitz-

http://tfn.net/holocaust/online/auschwitz.gif

Here is one of several crematoria in Auschwitz II/Birkenau which didn't exist either-

http://www.ozfactors.com/PICTURES/PS...z-Birkenau.jpg

Here is the Crematorium I complex at Auschwitz which was also a gas chamber and morgue. Obviously non-existant.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/ima...ust/aucrem.jpg

This is the totally nonexistant interior of the gas chamber at Crematorium I.

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/hol...rt/chamber.jpg

Here are empty cans of Zyklon B collected after the war which was not used to kill millions of people.

http://www.wordwiseweb.com/AUSCHWITZ...S/gascans.jpeg

Here is the victim of a medical "experiment" which never was conducted-

http://www.holocaust-history.org/hun...pg/10-1105.jpg

Here is a pile of obviously fake corpses at the fictional camp at Dachau.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/hun...pg/12-1141.jpg

Here is a letter from Dr. Sigmund Rascher to Heinrich Himmler that, if it had been written, would be talking about the gas chambers being constructed. But it wasn't written...

http://www.holocaust-history.org/dac...es/photo43.jpg

I think that's enough, don't you?

Obviously, there's no evidence to support this ridiculous claims. Wouldn't you agree?