Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Calzaer · 08-05-2003, 03:35 PM

Just in case anyone missed it, this thread is a response to Gemma Therese's "Why are nuns happy?"

openeyes · 08-05-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TomboyMom
Also I can focus my ethics, values, etc. on the here and now--on reality, and therefore have better tools for making decisions about my life.

Rene, the happy atheist

My thoughts were going along the lines of Rene's when I first read the question. The reality thing is the best part--I don't have to waste my time trying to follow church dictates about what should be important but doesn't seem so to me. For example, I don't take loads of time worrying about certain DNA combinations that haven't yet developed complex brain systems that are developing in other women's bodies. I don't have to feel threatened by giving equal rights to people whose sexual orientation differs from mine, as long as we're talking consenting adults. I don't have to worry about "someone upstairs" watching and judging, just the real people I come into contact with in my life. As others have mentioned, I don't have to waste time worshipping something that doesn't seem to have any influence in anything anyway.

As I mentioned on another thread, I think atheism in some cases can make the bad times of life shorter because, as Rene points out, I am forced to find better tools and therefore make better decisions.

Soul Invictus · 08-05-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calzaer
** This is a serious topic, and I hope it will be treated as such. **

How is it that there are so many happy, joyous, and fufilled atheists in the world? These people have given up security, fellowship, children (to religious spouses in divorce proceedings), and holy matrimony, and yet, they are joyful. Many have no desire to be politically influential and are satisfied with their role outside of the Church.

Does this speak to any nuns in support of the nonexistence of God? If not, to what do you attribute their happiness?

Calzaer

I understand that you say this is a serious topic. I almost thought this was a sarcastic post, but I must say I'm confused. Why wouldn't atheists be happy?

Soul Invictus · 08-05-2003, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
[
Probably because they once were unhappy with religion. Do you think maybe that atheism is a response to theism and therefore still a form of religious expression in Christendom?

Or it could be a natural response when confronted with the idea of theism maybe?

Arken · 08-05-2003, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Both atheists and Christians share the detestable trait of having zeal for truth. That's what I can't stand.

I don't think Christians and atheists are in error. I just think they're too rational, too evidential. I'm an anti-rational, anti-evidential person, and I can't stand that sort of thing. In my book, those games of "truth" and "error" should be discarded. I don't care a fig about truth; all I care about is happiness. [/B]

Again, I have no 'zeal for truth' and I know few rational atheists who do. I think we all seek the truth but not many of us claim to know what the objective truth is because it would be a claim made without evidence, something that most of us reject in the first place as being shaky argument-wise.

08-05-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
Actually, when someone tells me that Jesus is the answer, I think that they are in the wrong religion, not me.

How do we figure out who is right?

Good point and good question. How can you if you have been indoctrinated since you were a child. My compliments to atheists for defending their integrity.

I salute you all and now let's talk Catholicism.

Shadowy Man · 08-05-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
Good point and good question. How can you if you have been indoctrinated since you were a child. My compliments to atheists for defending their integrity.

Luckily I was never indoctrinated as a child so I have been able to make my own search openly and honestly.

Virgil Tibbs · 08-05-2003, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Both atheists and Christians share the detestable trait of having zeal for truth. That's what I can't stand.

While it may be virtually impossible to construct an interpretation of observations that every single person on the planet will agree to, that is far from a justification for the complete solipsism you describe. Your argument is therefore based on a false dichotomy, IMO.

But then, I guess a logical fallacy isn't going to bother someone who is "anti-rational," so that's a moot point for you I'm sure.

Personally, I could never be happy unless I was confident in my own intellectual integrity, but then we all have different goals in life.

Tibbs

emotional · 08-06-2003, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arken
Again, I have no 'zeal for truth' and I know few rational atheists who do.

C'mon, like, who're you trying to kid? THE selling-point of atheism, over all the religions, is that the atheist is free of delusion. "You won't necessarily be a happier person in atheism, but you'll be free of believing in untrue things" - that's how atheists advertise atheism.

Quote:

I think we all seek the truth but not many of us claim to know what the objective truth is because it would be a claim made without evidence, something that most of us reject in the first place as being shaky argument-wise.

"No gods" is an objective truth claim. "Nature all there is" is an objective truth claim. "Prayer doesn't work" is an objective truth claim. "No life after death" is an objective truth claim. Atheists do claim those truths and say they are true for all people, everywhere, all the time. No, atheists don't say "we have the whole truth", that's right, but they do say, "our worldview is more correct, closer to the truth, than all the others". And how many times have atheists told me, "the truth doesn't owe anything to your emotions" - meaning that truth is raised above happiness, a view which I vehemently dispute!

The atheistic "you're going to cease existing when you die, whether you like it or not" is on a par with the Christian "you're going to burn in hell if you don't accept Jesus, whether you like it or not".

TomboyMom · 08-06-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

I don't think Christians and atheists are in error. I just think they're too rational, too evidential. I'm an anti-rational, anti-evidential person, and I can't stand that sort of thing. In my book, those games of "truth" and "error" should be discarded. I don't care a fig about truth; all I care about is happiness.

Wow, I think that's really weird. I have a major zeal for truth. I'm trying to figure as much of it out as I possibly can before I die. The unexamined life is not worth living, and all that. I think curiousity is a natural human trait, and I have a lot of it.

Well, cool for you, I guess, but I'm certainly not going to look to you when I'm trying to figure anything out.

Doesn't figuring out the truth make you happier?

Rene the truth seeker

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-05-2003, 03:35 PM	#41
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	Just in case anyone missed it, this thread is a response to Gemma Therese's "Why are nuns happy?"

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.