Dr Rick

That all depends on how one defines "dead;" if we're going to define it as the cessation of mental activity and higher cortical function, he was dead long before he made his first post here.

Rick

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

CorumB

Thanks for all the great information on beneficial mutations. I especially appreciate mfaber's link to the site about the apolipoprotein mutation A-I Milano, I hadn't learned that the specific mechanism of its beneficial effects has been determined. Anyway, here's a list I made up in response to a "challenge" from an ICR creationist (Guliuzza) after I corrected some of his misinformation in the Q&A session concluding his lecture (I sent him a subset of this list). You've already seen at least one of these:

1. Beneficial mutation in H. sapiens. The apolipoprotein A-I Milano mutation prevents atherosclerosis. The Apo A-1 Milano mutation is at position 137 of the final protein, where arginine was replaced by cysteine. The mutation first occurred in Giovanni Pomaroli, who was born in 1780 in Limone sul Garda, Italy. See a popular account about this mutation at <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/life/health/doctor/lhdoc103.htm" target="_blank">Mutation may curb cardiovascular disease</a>, by A.J.S. Rayl and Stephen A. Shoop, M.D., USA Today, March 2, 2000. A search at PubMed for "Apo AI Milano" resulted in 53 references.

2. Beneficial mutations in various species resulting in Antifreeze Proteins. These mutations prevent their hosts from freezing to death in a greater range of frigid conditions. First discovered in some Antarctic fish, many different antifreeze proteins have been found in other organisms, including Artic fish, insects, and plants. The Antartic antifreeze glycoproteins of the notothenoid Antarctic fish evolved from a pancreatic trypsinogen, while those of the Artic fish evolved from modification of different ancestral genes. From "Evolution of antifreeze glycoprotein gene from a trypsinogen gene in Antarctic notothenioid fish", by Liangbiao Chen, Arthur L. DeVries, and Chi-Hing C. Cheng, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 94, pp. 3811-3816, April 1997: "The primordial AFGP gene apparently arose through recruitment of the 5 and 3 ends of an ancestral trypsinogen gene, which provided the secretory signal and the 3 untranslated region, respectively, plus de novo amplification of a 9-nt Thr-Ala-Ala coding element from the trypsinogen progenitor to create a new protein coding region for the repetitive tripeptide backbone of the antifreeze protein." <a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/94/8/3811" target="_blank">PNAS -- Chen et al. 94 (8): 3811</a>

3. Beneficial mutations in E. coli. Remold SK, Lenski RE. Contribution of individual random mutations to genotype-by-environment interactions in Escherichia coli. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2001 Sep 25;98(20):11388-93.<a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/20/11388" target="_blank">PNAS -- Remold and Lenski 98 (20):11388</a>

4. Beneficial mutations in C. elegans. Genetics 1998 Aug;149(4):1809-22. Gain-of-function mutations in the Caenorhabditis elegans lin-1 ETS gene identify a C-terminal regulatory domain phosphorylated by ERK MAP kinase. Jacobs D, Beitel GJ, Clark SG, Horvitz HR, Kornfeld K

5. Beneficial mutations in research culture cells. Exp Cell Res 1994 Dec;215(2):380-5 Gradual selection of a cellular clone presenting a mutation at codon 179 of the p53 gene during establishment of the immortalized human breast epithelial cell line HMT-3522. Moyret C, Madsen MW, Cooke J, Briand P, Theillet C.

6. Lack of Neu5Gc in humans - Humans have a 92-base-pair deletion resulting in a frameshift mutation when compared to the African great apes (and other mammals) which results in little or no Neu5Gc in humans. Neu5Gc, or N-glycolylneuraminic acid, is a hydroxylated form of the common sialic acid N-acetylneuraminic acid, Neu5Ac. See "A mutation in human CMP-sialic acid hydroxylase occurred after the Homo-Pan divergence", by Chou HH, Takematsu H, Diaz S, Iber J, Nickerson E, Wright KL, Muchmore EA, Nelson DL, Warren ST, Varki A., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, Vol. 95, Issue 20, 11751-11756, September 29, 1998, at <a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/20/11751" target="_blank">PNAS -- Chou et al. (Sialic Acid Mutation)</a>
<a href="http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/275/12/8633" target="_blank">JBC -- Brinkman-Van der Linden et al. 275 (12): 8633</a>

7. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1994 Apr 12;91(8):2950-4. Invasion and maintenance of a gene duplication. Clark AG.

Vander will claim we failed his "challenge", because we provided more than the one beneficial mutation he requested.

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: CorumB ]</p>

scigirl

Hello CorumB, and welcome to infidels!

You can tell us a little about yourself in the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">Welcome Forum</a>, if you so desire.

scigirl

Non-praying Mantis

time to bump this one...Vander? Yoo-hoo!

I usually do not define 23 days as "a few days"

NPM

[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: Non-praying Mantis ]</p>

scigirl

Me neither, NPM,

Maybe it's the old earth creationism "a day to God means a million years."

scigirl

Nickle

Well the speed of light might have decayed where Vander lives, screwing with time measurements.

Godless Dave

I think some of you are being unfair. In the OP Vanderzyden asked for examples of beneficial mutations. He did not assert that such mutations do not exist. I assumed he was just looking for examples. Since he has not posted in this thread again I take it he got the number of examples he wanted, and accepts that there are such things as "good" mutations.

Doubting Didymus

GodlessDave;

That is certainly not the impression he was giving in the other threads that he was participating in at the time.

Happy Wonderer

Give him a break. It even takes the mighty Vanderzyden a little time to refute the last 2000 or so years of alleged "scientific discoveries" in biology. I hear that he has a big book on biology that he is dissecting as we speak. (In my mind's eye, I can just see him busily highlighting all of the 'weasel words' while at the same time underlining all of the parts that assume evolution is a valid theory.)


HW

scigirl

Actually Godless Dave, he did assert just that.

He frequently stated "there is precious little evidence to support evolution," even after he started this thread and we replied.

scigirl