Jat

Did they vote like that in South Africa after the fall of apartheid?

You are basing your opinion solely on what ifs.

What if the moon were made of green cheese and the people voted to swim to Mars?

Jat

Zimbabwe is not South Africa. Look at Rowonda (sp).

contracycle

Really? What with the phrase that seeing as one man one vote was not available, 'one settler one bullet' would have to do? Was that a joke? It didn't seem very funny at the time.

You say that like its a bad thing. Considering that the UK defaulted on its 1979 agreement to fund land transfers, I consider the indigenous Zimbabweans to have exercised great restraint, having waited 20 years to press the point (after a war of national liberation they won, I would point out). It's also difficult to sympathise with the CFU, which was exporting grain in exchange for foreign currency, and foreign currency in exchange for western consumer goods, while the locals, consigned to the most impoverioshed land, could not produce or import sufficent staples such as food and parafin to stay alive. Why should we care about them?

The people we should care about in Zim are the normal ordinary Zimbabweans in the MDC, not a bunch of priviliged white fatcats in mini-fortresses.

Oh I SEE. Its one of THOSE 'democracies', one of the "any colour you like as long as its black" variety. Much like in South Africa, then, when the ANC and PAC and SACP were banned. For (cough) "terrorism", of course.

Essentially, Loren, the position you advance is wholly undemocratic. It claims that you know what will happen, how thousands of millions of people will think. That some opinions are just beyond the pale of democracy. Well what the hell good is democracy if you have to surrender free thought as a prerequisite? Worthless.

Loren Pechtel

[B]Originally posted by Jat
Israel *IS* a democracy. People vote for the candidates they want.

That is the claim of Iraq as well. Saddam got 99% of the vote.

Israel is a true democracy, not one of these one-party shams.

Sure, the terrorists can't field candidates but we have enough trouble with stealth candidates here--the outcome is quite predictable.

Here? You're an Israeli? That explains your responses. You believe the official line fed to you.

Note that my location has always been under my name. It's not in Israel. I was saying that we have enough problems with stealth candidates here in the US, the prohibition against the terrorists fielding candidates wouldn't be enough to stop them from coming to power.

Loren Pechtel

Zimbabwe is the closest comparison, however--a white government that voluntarily gave up power after a long period of conflict.

slept2long

Are you serious? You think they are going to vote the Jews to death!


Or do you really think a candidate is going to be elected in Israel that esposes it's destruction? There SC would probably eleiminate them from the race.

Corwin

Of course not... I mean it's not as if that's ever happened before.....

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by contracycle
You say that like its a bad thing. Considering that the UK defaulted on its 1979 agreement to fund land transfers,

Whatever the UK did or didn't do is irrelevant.

I consider the indigenous Zimbabweans to have exercised great restraint, having waited 20 years to press the point (after a war of national liberation they won, I would point out).

This had nothing to do with the desires of the indigenous population. It had to do with stealing the land for those in power.

It's also difficult to sympathise with the CFU, which was exporting grain in exchange for foreign currency, and foreign currency in exchange for western consumer goods, while the locals, consigned to the most impoverioshed land, could not produce or import sufficent staples such as food and parafin to stay alive. Why should we care about them?

Zimbabwe was doing ok until they decided to take the land from the farmers and give it to the politically powerful who knew nothing of farming. There was a show of giving some of it to the populace--but it was given to people who didn't have the means to farm it. The result: famine.

Essentially, Loren, the position you advance is wholly undemocratic. It claims that you know what will happen, how thousands of millions of people will think. That some opinions are just beyond the pale of democracy. Well what the hell good is democracy if you have to surrender free thought as a prerequisite? Worthless.

I'm saying that the normal operation of democracy would be an absolute disaster for Israel if they granted the right of return.

Jat

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

Israel is a true democracy, not one of these one-party shams.

When was the last time a non-Jewish party lead the country? Or are Israeli Arabs not allowed to run? If not then it isn't much of a "true" democracy. No, Israel is a theocracy since most of its laws are based on the Talmud.

Note that my location has always been under my name. It's not in Israel.

Didn't say you were in Israel. I had said that you were an Israeli. My father was born in the Ukraine, but raised here in Canada.

I was saying that we have enough problems with stealth candidates here in the US, the prohibition against the terrorists fielding candidates wouldn't be enough to stop them from coming to power.

In the USA? The USA is a two party system at the federal level.

Jat

That was covered elsewhere in this thread.