Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Albion · 03-28-2003, 04:23 PM

OK, just ignore me, he's posting with the same over there too, isn't he? Sigh.

Life makes a lot more sense after a cup of tea...

Wounded King · 03-28-2003, 11:43 PM

I'm sorry to appear so unoriginal.

Albert Cipriani · 03-29-2003, 12:19 AM

I loved Trillion's throw away line about termites on the Ark. What an apt image for us.

Creationsists want to believe in a personal God Who is responsible for saving us all. Yet some aboard the Ark are abusing their high privliege by eating the hand that feeds them. The longer we forbare their gnawing fossil digs, the more our faith sinks into the grip of gnawing questions and the more likely it seems that the best laid plans of God and man will go awry. -- Albert the Traditional Catholic and Quasi-Creationist Who's Willing to Mutate into an Evolutionist

Psychic · 03-29-2003, 04:12 AM

The thread is dead.
shot me dead

what the hell are you doing guys??!
making jokes?
cool place to do that.

Doubting Didymus · 03-30-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psychic
The thread is dead.
shot me dead

what the hell are you doing guys??!
making jokes?
cool place to do that.

As far as I can tell, the thread is largely on topic and in a serious vein. DT and woundedkings discussion was perhiperal, but also informative and certainly by no means derailing. Scanning back over the thread I find the vast majority of comments are in direct reply to you personally and contain what looks to me like relevant and pointed discussion of your questions.

GeoTheo · 03-30-2003, 03:15 PM

The "average" person is really not that smart. I can say this being an "average" person myself! I often learn things and realize what an idiot I have been. You connot converse intelligently with most people about biology/geology/genetics. They will look at you like you have two heads or like they think you are being a show off. So it comes down to "who" people believe -their experts vs. your experts. Also it comes down to the really big questions. Most people only think of evolution/creation in the context of how it relates to the existence of God and the meaning of life. So you then have a problem with the scope of the debate. It is amazing how fast the scope of the debate shifts from historical geology and radiometric dating to the meaning of life. But if you try to downshift from philosophy/theology to the tangible hard facts and evidence you lose people who don't have the proper body of knowledge to put it in context.
Much rarer than the "average" person, who is scientifically illiterate, is the person who is a Biology major with a 4.0 getting ready to enter graduate school, who is a creationist. I have encountered some. I think, though, that this reveals how little critical thinking our educational system requires. You basically need good grammar and the abilty for rote memorization.
Not even good grammar so much.
I think there are only a few really tormented individuals who understand and acknowlefge all the scientific evidence and yet continue to believe in 6 day creation. I was one for about a week. I really don't see how anyone could exist like that for longer. It was a rough week. Before that I was for the most part ignorant of the evidence, even though I thought I was pretty smart. I needed to learn a whole lot more science in order to make an informed decision on the subject.
By the same token though, I think you can accept evolution and be just as ignorant of science. It just goes back to which experts you believe.

Albion · 03-30-2003, 07:21 PM

Hello, Geo, welcome back! How are things going? Found yourself a good church yet?

Psychic · 03-31-2003, 05:36 AM

ooh Hiiii Albion! how are you man?
.................
ooh really?! I didn't know thaaaat! good for you man.
....................
so ... what are you doing for this week end?
......................
yeah meet me at the pub at 9:30!
......................
oh don't worry these days there's no difference between the discussion boards and public phones.

Wounded King · 03-31-2003, 05:59 AM

If you are, as you originally suggested, using this forum to help you kick around ideas as to creationist intransigence, then why dont you inject a bit more original thought into the mix.

Indeed if Albert is reading the boards why dont you use him as a test case, although he might be a little too open minded to be a good wild type creationist.

As I asked before, do you consider all the relevant factors to be psychological, or are you also considering neurological explanations?

GeoTheo · 03-31-2003, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion
Hello, Geo, welcome back! How are things going? Found yourself a good church yet?

Hi, Actually yes, but I pick and choose who I talk about my beliefs on creation with. Thanks for asking.

03-29-2003, 12:19 AM	#33
Albert Cipriani Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,018	Shiver Me Timbers! I loved Trillion's throw away line about termites on the Ark. What an apt image for us. Creationsists want to believe in a personal God Who is responsible for saving us all. Yet some aboard the Ark are abusing their high privliege by eating the hand that feeds them. The longer we forbare their gnawing fossil digs, the more our faith sinks into the grip of gnawing questions and the more likely it seems that the best laid plans of God and man will go awry. -- Albert the Traditional Catholic and Quasi-Creationist Who's Willing to Mutate into an Evolutionist

03-31-2003, 05:36 AM	#38
Psychic Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Jordan Posts: 133	hi albion ooh Hiiii Albion! how are you man? ................. ooh really?! I didn't know thaaaat! good for you man. .................... so ... what are you doing for this week end? ...................... yeah meet me at the pub at 9:30! ...................... oh don't worry these days there's no difference between the discussion boards and public phones.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-28-2003, 04:23 PM	#31
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	OK, just ignore me, he's posting with the same over there too, isn't he? Sigh. Life makes a lot more sense after a cup of tea...

03-28-2003, 11:43 PM	#32
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	I'm sorry to appear so unoriginal.

03-29-2003, 04:12 AM	#34
Psychic Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Jordan Posts: 133	The thread is dead. shot me dead what the hell are you doing guys??! making jokes? cool place to do that.

03-30-2003, 03:15 PM	#36
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	The "average" person is really not that smart. I can say this being an "average" person myself! I often learn things and realize what an idiot I have been. You connot converse intelligently with most people about biology/geology/genetics. They will look at you like you have two heads or like they think you are being a show off. So it comes down to "who" people believe -their experts vs. your experts. Also it comes down to the really big questions. Most people only think of evolution/creation in the context of how it relates to the existence of God and the meaning of life. So you then have a problem with the scope of the debate. It is amazing how fast the scope of the debate shifts from historical geology and radiometric dating to the meaning of life. But if you try to downshift from philosophy/theology to the tangible hard facts and evidence you lose people who don't have the proper body of knowledge to put it in context. Much rarer than the "average" person, who is scientifically illiterate, is the person who is a Biology major with a 4.0 getting ready to enter graduate school, who is a creationist. I have encountered some. I think, though, that this reveals how little critical thinking our educational system requires. You basically need good grammar and the abilty for rote memorization. Not even good grammar so much. I think there are only a few really tormented individuals who understand and acknowlefge all the scientific evidence and yet continue to believe in 6 day creation. I was one for about a week. I really don't see how anyone could exist like that for longer. It was a rough week. Before that I was for the most part ignorant of the evidence, even though I thought I was pretty smart. I needed to learn a whole lot more science in order to make an informed decision on the subject. By the same token though, I think you can accept evolution and be just as ignorant of science. It just goes back to which experts you believe.

03-30-2003, 07:21 PM	#37
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Hello, Geo, welcome back! How are things going? Found yourself a good church yet?

03-31-2003, 05:59 AM	#39
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	If you are, as you originally suggested, using this forum to help you kick around ideas as to creationist intransigence, then why dont you inject a bit more original thought into the mix. Indeed if Albert is reading the boards why dont you use him as a test case, although he might be a little too open minded to be a good wild type creationist. As I asked before, do you consider all the relevant factors to be psychological, or are you also considering neurological explanations?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.