Ojuice5001

See above

hyzer

With Vicar’s permission – here is my slightly different take on “It’s all the same god” discussion:

When I was young, and carted off to church each Sunday, I’d ask my parents (as we pulled into the parking lot of our church after passing the entrances to at least 10 other churches or synagogues on the way, each with their own sign out front proclaiming their own name brand of religion) “Why are there so many religions?” To which my parents would say (to this effect) “We all worship the same god, we just know him differently.” I believe that it was their way of saying that no one religion is necessarily correct, but all are trying to know god as best as they can (Note – yes, some hedging going on, enlightened hedging I like to think, perhaps the reason I came to atheism while still in high school).

It was not an excuse at all and it had nothing to do with the idea that the tenants of one religion necessarily exclude most or all followers of other religions (from salvation, heaven, whatnot). I believe that the “It’s all the same god” rejoinder needs to be seen in that light.

pariah

Islam says jesus is a prophet and that allah is God.

Christianity says that jesus IS god, 1/3 of God to be exact.


Those don't sound compatible, IMO. Same argument can be used for judaism. It's always worked for me...

Vicar Philip

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

I suppose I sort of painted myself in a corner by only mentioning Islam. She doesn't profess to know the tenets of any other religions beside Christianity, I simply used Islam as an example, since it's a religion she has at least heard of.

The tricky part about refuting someone's belief, I think, is getting down to how they actually define the god they worship. Once that has been established, it makes it easier to pick apart just exactly what they base their "religion" on. I know this is pathetically obvious, but it helps me, the novice philosopher, determine what makes people tick.

Man I wish I'd taken that World Religions class in college. More ammunition.

B. H. Manners

The Old Testament tells us that the Jews did not consider a "false god" just a personification of YHWH in a erroneous Gentile sense. Remember Elijah's challenge to the priests of Baal where the sacrifices were consumed by fire and all the water was burned, not boiled away?? He said "if the Lord be God....." and then "if Baal be god". He differentiated between the two potential persons as two seperate persons and not as just two different and conflicting opinions over one person. The Jews did not regard Baal as a mistunderstood and erroneous view of Jehovah held by pagans. He was an entirely different persona, though regarded as a "false god".

streamline

How does a theist KNOW that the god he or she worships is the same god being worshipped by another theist? Can this be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Isn't it a bit presumptious and arrogant to assume that the god one experiences is the very same god that another claims to experience?

...and what of the person, say, me, who, er, discovers a god right ---- (wait) ---- NOW! And, you know what, as I embrace, praise and get to know this god in my heart, at this very moment, I am realizing that this god, my god, is one that has heretofore not revealed itself to anyone on this planet, at any time in the past. Never, not one -- It just said so, to me. In fact, It is telling me right now, in my heart and in my soul, that I am the first one It has chosen to allow to know and love It, and to give praise to It and It's Eternal power and wisdom. Furthermore, It just told me that all other gods who have supposedly come before It, all other reported deities around which a religion has formed, are all shams, they are all figments of imagination in the minds of their human authors. Human creators, It now says. Now who can prove to me that this god of which I speak is not an entirely different god from the ones all you religious people believe in? Why would my Revelation, just because It's entirely unique and a first of Its kind, be any less valid than that of any others that came before It? Since when did the decision as to which god is the correct god, or which god subsumes all other reported gods, become decided by a head count of its adherents? Isn't the Truth the Truth, regardless of how many people choose to hear It?

CX

Indeed. My mother is a devout evangelical Xian and her response is something like "Muhammed is the descendant of the bastard child of Abraham and Hagai and is demonically inspired" or something like that.

Spenser

Retreating to the "Its all the same God" defense just suggests that the person in question might as well render all religions of the world bunk; ignore their doctrines as they are conflicting; and just worship a God in general as nothing specifically stated about him can be trusted as truth. If all religions point to the same God then what is the point of anything those particular religions have to say? If they all point to the same God perhaps suggest to this person that they should goto church one day, a mosque the next, a Hindu temple the following, and vary them up since none of them have any more significance than any other and variety is the spice of life...

Ojuice5001

Spenser,

You are right, and sooner or later everyone does draw that conclusion. That's why the theologians who actually get their ideas from Yahweh instead of Descartes are so against this defense. It's not used by the serious monotheists, it's used by the people who are drained of connection to the gods without losing belief in them.

Religion is a great thing in itself, but these aren't its glory years. I suppose that when the post-Enlightenment culture and its non-revealed gods collapse, the void will be filled by someone with vitality. Could be either Yahweh's Christians, Jupiter's pagans, or--though I really hope it isn't--Allah's Muslims. Or a completely new revealed or non-revealed pantheon, of course.

Jamie_L

Yeah, I get this a lot. To me, this whole thousands-of-religions things was a major component of my slow shift to atheism. The existence of so many religions, many of which are now extinct and considered mere mythology, is a serious blow, in my opinion, to the person who wants to point to their religion as truth.

Because despite what is implied, many of the world's religions are dramatically different. Even different Christian sects can differ wildly on what is sinful, what is not, and how one achieves salvation. Either your religion is accurate, or it's not. And if it's not, what's the point? Especially when most religions literally instruct that it is accurate, and that it is the "only" way to live your life.

This "all the same god" defense is really rationalization - a defense mechanism to deal with the very real problem of the existence of so many other religions. Clearly, no matter who's right, a majority of humans have it wrong. And if everyone's fairly wrong, then what's the point of religion?

Some of those who give me this defense aren't actually religious. They have an internal conviction that "something is out there", and that there is an order and purpose to things, but that religions are generally a waste of time and emotion because they are a lot of BS. These people are more consistent, and I respect this defense a lot more coming from people like that.

Jamie