Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Cojana · 05-20-2003, 08:32 AM

Members,maluikimalu,and Mogus 55, if God didn't create evil,where did it come from? you fail to see my points, I gether my points from Genesis, where did sin come from? Adam and Eve? and whom premeditated sin,? if God would have left Adam and Eve without testing them, Adam and Eve would still be in paradise,and we wouldn't be here, why are we born in sin? because the 'Apple' are a metaphor for intercourse, The serpent are a metaphor for Satan,whom fuched Eve, then Eve seduced Adam, thus sin was born, thanks to God, thats where Gods Genius are, in the Evil it created,including Death,. Eve,because she was the first to fall,gets to bear children in pain,all born in sin, clear enough? Evil are life's motivation, a good life are a tree, no evil there, wanna be a tree? Mogus55,..

winstonjen · 05-20-2003, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malookiemaloo

Satan himself is even under God's control and he is used by God-Job is a particularly good example of this.

m

Yes, a bet with Satan. And this behaviour is supposed to be KIND and LOVING?!?!?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Mageth · 05-20-2003, 12:43 PM

However while God did not create evil that does not mean that He does not use evil for His purposes. I do not think this point is sufficiently understood and therefore leads to confusion.

God, walking through the garden one day: "Hmm, what do we have here? Evil? Aah, those little farts of mine, Adam and Eve, musta created this; I don't remember doing it."

One of those other gods: "Hey, Pops, think a minute; you created them, set them in the garden, and left that goddammed talking snake in there that tempted them with the fruit, which you created, knowing they would disobey you. And you didn't endow them with the power to create anything, either; they can just muck around with what you gave them to work with. And you knew before you did all that that they would whip some of this bad shit up; it was all in the blueprints you drew up before the foundation of the world, remember? That's why one of us has to go down there and sacrifice himself to us to save them from our wrath."

God: "Oh well, whatever. Maybe I can find a use for it - drown a few million people or something. Might be fun."

Satan himself is even under God's control and he is used by God-Job is a particularly good example of this.

The OT, including Job, shows Satan as one of God's troopers, sent by god to tempt man. The evil, adversary Satan is largely an invention of the NT and of post-biblical invention.

Cojana · 05-20-2003, 02:05 PM

Intercourse are the greatest Evil, note, God creates Adam, andows him with a penus, then he creates Eve, he thinks, ahh,! endows Eve with a vagina, what a genius I am, so different,yet so compatable, note , now they discover how to use thier perspective endowments, now God sentance them to death, for fuching? with what God archetects? whatta pervert,!! Sex has got to be the greatest Evil, Death was created for the discovery of it, whatta phychotic maniac,..

Mageth · 05-20-2003, 02:09 PM

Cojana:

With all due respect, I think you're reading more into the text than is actually there. It takes a real stretch to conclude that coitus is what God was pissed about.

Magus55 · 05-20-2003, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
Who or what created Evil then?

How did Evil come to be?

If God controls evil, then all evil is under teh control of God, thus God is doing evil things, true it is through Satan, but still, ultimately God is teh one who moves everything, including evil!

DD - Love Spliff

God created the ability to do evil, by giving His creation free will. Evil is just the absence of good. Disobeying God is evil, because God is good. Therefore, by creating things with free will, God allowed evil to enter the world - it was a requirement in order for free will to exist. That doesn't mean God purposely created this concept of evil in the world, just to make us suffer. Its a required possibility for choice to exist. Now, if we didn't disobey God, and didn't choose to go against Him, then there would be no apparent signs of evil in the world - we would have choice because that possibility of evil still exists, but we wouldn't have gone so far as to commit evil.

And as malook pointed out, God can work with the evil that humans brought about through disobeyal. He can use evil for His glory and purpose - which is what He does in the case of job.

winstonjen · 05-20-2003, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Therefore, by creating things with free will, God allowed evil to enter the world - it was a requirement in order for free will to exist.

BZZZZZT! Without evil, we would still have free will - for example, we could choose whether to eat an apple or a pear. We just would not be allowed to commit evil acts.

AquaVita · 05-20-2003, 02:27 PM

This is more of an Elsewhere topic.

Mageth · 05-20-2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Magus55
God created the ability to do evil, by giving His creation free will.

So, God created evil. Thanks for clarifying that.

Evil is just the absence of good.

Is that all it is?
Is that all it is?
If that's all it is, my friend,
then let's keep dancing.
Let's break out booze...and have...a ball...

Disobeying God is evil, because God is good.

That doesn't make any sense. God could be bad and still define disobeying him as evil.

And who created the rule "Disobeying god is evil"? God, right? In so doing, God defined, created evil. If he wouldn't have created the rule, there would be no evil.

Therefore, by creating things with free will, God allowed evil to enter the world - it was a requirement in order for free will to exist.

So god is responsible for evil. You might as well say he created evil and get it over with.

That doesn't mean God purposely created this concept of evil in the world, just to make us suffer. Its a required possibility for choice to exist.

The system was created by god, the system requires the possibility of evil. For evil to be possible, it must be defined. God gave it a definition: evil = disobeying ME. Therefore, God created evil.

Now, if we didn't disobey God, and didn't choose to go against Him, then there would be no apparent signs of evil in the world - we would have choice because that possibility of evil still exists, but we wouldn't have gone so far as to commit evil.

Evil being disobeying god, remember? So if god didn't set up the rule "Disobeying ME is evil", we could go about exercising our free will without ever committing evil. Therefore, god, in setting up the system, built evil into it.

And as malook pointed out, God can work with the evil that humans brought about through disobeyal. He can use evil for His glory and purpose - which is what He does in the case of job.

And if he'd set up the system to allow only GOOD choices to be made, he could still have used it for his glory and purpose - he's GOD, remember, so is capable of anything.

And the idea of a god that allows (he did allow it, actually by his permission generated it through his servant Satan; read Job) a man's family, servants, and livestock to be slaughtered just so he can prove to the man what a tough old Almighty Jehovah worthy of awe and worship he is is, well, disgusting and immoral.

BioBeing · 05-20-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by malookiemaloo
Thanks, Joel.

However while God did not create evil that does not mean that He does not use evil for His purposes. I do not think this point is sufficiently understood and therefore leads to confusion.

Is not understood because there are too many negatives in that sentence! Was that a triple negative?

God did not create evil?

Quote:

Genesis 2:9
And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

05-20-2003, 08:32 AM	#11
Cojana Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Reseda, California Posts: 651	Pity, no insight interpretation,alas,... Members,maluikimalu,and Mogus 55, if God didn't create evil,where did it come from? you fail to see my points, I gether my points from Genesis, where did sin come from? Adam and Eve? and whom premeditated sin,? if God would have left Adam and Eve without testing them, Adam and Eve would still be in paradise,and we wouldn't be here, why are we born in sin? because the 'Apple' are a metaphor for intercourse, The serpent are a metaphor for Satan,whom fuched Eve, then Eve seduced Adam, thus sin was born, thanks to God, thats where Gods Genius are, in the Evil it created,including Death,. Eve,because she was the first to fall,gets to bear children in pain,all born in sin, clear enough? Evil are life's motivation, a good life are a tree, no evil there, wanna be a tree? Mogus55,..

05-20-2003, 02:05 PM	#14
Cojana Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Reseda, California Posts: 651	Whatta pervert,!! Intercourse are the greatest Evil, note, God creates Adam, andows him with a penus, then he creates Eve, he thinks, ahh,! endows Eve with a vagina, what a genius I am, so different,yet so compatable, note , now they discover how to use thier perspective endowments, now God sentance them to death, for fuching? with what God archetects? whatta pervert,!! Sex has got to be the greatest Evil, Death was created for the discovery of it, whatta phychotic maniac,..

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05-20-2003, 12:43 PM	#13
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	However while God did not create evil that does not mean that He does not use evil for His purposes. I do not think this point is sufficiently understood and therefore leads to confusion. God, walking through the garden one day: "Hmm, what do we have here? Evil? Aah, those little farts of mine, Adam and Eve, musta created this; I don't remember doing it." One of those other gods: "Hey, Pops, think a minute; you created them, set them in the garden, and left that goddammed talking snake in there that tempted them with the fruit, which you created, knowing they would disobey you. And you didn't endow them with the power to create anything, either; they can just muck around with what you gave them to work with. And you knew before you did all that that they would whip some of this bad shit up; it was all in the blueprints you drew up before the foundation of the world, remember? That's why one of us has to go down there and sacrifice himself to us to save them from our wrath." God: "Oh well, whatever. Maybe I can find a use for it - drown a few million people or something. Might be fun." Satan himself is even under God's control and he is used by God-Job is a particularly good example of this. The OT, including Job, shows Satan as one of God's troopers, sent by god to tempt man. The evil, adversary Satan is largely an invention of the NT and of post-biblical invention.

05-20-2003, 02:09 PM	#15
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Cojana: With all due respect, I think you're reading more into the text than is actually there. It takes a real stretch to conclude that coitus is what God was pissed about.

05-20-2003, 02:27 PM	#18
AquaVita Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Dallas Posts: 4,351	This is more of an Elsewhere topic.

05-20-2003, 02:43 PM	#19
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Originally posted by Magus55 *God created the ability* to do evil, by giving His creation free will. So, God created evil. Thanks for clarifying that. Evil is just the absence of good. Is that all it is? Is that all it is? If that's all it is, my friend, then let's keep dancing. Let's break out booze...and have...a ball... Disobeying God is evil, because God is good.** That doesn't make any sense. God could be bad and still define disobeying him as evil. And who created the rule "Disobeying god is evil"? God, right? In so doing, God defined, created evil. If he wouldn't have created the rule, there would be no evil. Therefore, by creating things with free will, God allowed evil to enter the world - it was a requirement in order for free will to exist. So god is responsible for evil. You might as well say he created evil and get it over with. That doesn't mean God purposely created this concept of evil in the world, just to make us suffer. Its a required possibility for choice to exist. The system was created by god, the system requires the possibility of evil. For evil to be possible, it must be defined. God gave it a definition: evil = disobeying ME. Therefore, God created evil. Now, if we didn't disobey God, and didn't choose to go against Him, then there would be no apparent signs of evil in the world - we would have choice because that possibility of evil still exists, but we wouldn't have gone so far as to commit evil. Evil being disobeying god, remember? So if god didn't set up the rule "Disobeying ME is evil", we could go about exercising our free will without ever committing evil. Therefore, god, in setting up the system, built evil into it. And as malook pointed out, God can work with the evil that humans brought about through disobeyal. He can use evil for His glory and purpose - which is what He does in the case of job. And if he'd set up the system to allow only GOOD choices to be made, he could still have used it for his glory and purpose - he's GOD, remember, so is capable of anything. And the idea of a god that allows (he did allow it, actually by his permission generated it through his servant Satan; read Job) a man's family, servants, and livestock to be slaughtered just so he can prove to the man what a tough old Almighty Jehovah worthy of awe and worship he is is, well, disgusting and immoral.

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