MrFrosty

Obviously there is a continuum of belief in God (atheism through to complete fundie belief). This spectrum also encompasses agnosticism and even deconverted Christians.

But you seem to suggest that there is also a continuum of consequences as well, even though the Christian view is that one ends up in either Heaven OR Hell and not, say, 100 different places in between.

I would therefore appreciate it if you could explain to me how minor disbelief is different to major disbelief in determining where one ends up. How is this distinction drawn because your phrase was "God will certainly have more mercy for her disbelief than maybe for yours." [emphasis mine]

Shadowy Man

Even if there is a god, this girl sure got a raw deal from humanity.

fatherphil

kor, no i'm not a priest but got the nickname for being a father/adult type who frequented mosh pits at concerts by Christian bands.

i think where we end up, heaven or hell, is determined by God on our own day of judgement when we stand before Him. He knows our heart and will judge accordingly based on that. our actions on earth may be evidence of what's in our hearts but are not all that He will use to base His judgement on. frankly i'm hoping for much mercy upon us all. one thing i think He values is a humble heart, stand proud before Him and it may not bode well. but then our pride may not be so resilient before something so awesome that defies comprehension.

just my take. whadya think?

MrFrosty

Well, ignoring the fact that there are different Christian denominations, let's work on the most basic definition of a Christian to save some time: somebody who believes and accepts Christ as their personal saviour.

I know about the judgement part. Actually, I have not mentioned anywhere on IIDF before that I am a deconverted Xian (this was long, long ago) but anyway... if we look past the "once saved, always saved" issue / debate to save ourselves yet more time ... your account would seem to mean that a good, humble person who tried to live a worthy life (almost Christian goodly without being an actual Christian) could have a merciful judgement pronounced upon them. But would that actually stop them from ending up in Hell because, technically speaking, they are not Christian in that they did not accept Christ as their saviour. That was the essence of my last post that there are still only two possible outcomes.

A very crude analogy would be applying for a job: you may have a 100 different and job-relevant skills on your resume to dazzle the prospective employer with (i.e. many Christian-like values) but, without one specific qualification (actual and absolute belief in Christ as saviour), you are not getting the job (going to Heaven).

So, ultimately, it doesn't seem to matter how much disbelief one has in Christ, you still end up in Hell -- assuming the Christian belief system is correct and true ofc. That's why I wanted to question, in a friendly manner, your statement about God being more merciful to the girl's disbelief than, say, to mine. This is overlooking the different issues that also arise such as "once saved, always saved" but I just wanted to avoid a lengthly side-issue.

I'm not trying to argue with you, fatherphil, I'm simply trying to explore the issue a bit more

GeoTheo

I have to wonder what goes through your head Mr. Darwin.

Radorth

This question has been asked and answered many times. I don't know any Christians at all that think any child is damned, Christian or not. I suppose there are such Christians, but most have considered and answered this question, so the premise of your thread, that we don't want to go there, is ridiculous.

As for your first question, the answer is no, he did not answer them. Consider your question "touched."

And now for the question you cannot answer. What should he have done short of a physical intervention which would have in no way hindered human free will for the time being? (And don't worry. He has big plans to hinder it in the future)

Nice try though.

Rad

Shadowy Man

Well, does prayer work or not? Does God intervene or not? If he doesn't, as it would hinder human free will as you say, then one can expect that any type of prayer that appeals for intervention is bound, by necessity, to fail.

MrDarwin

Just lots of questions because I'm trying to understand a belief system that makes no sense to me.

(edited for grammar)

GeoTheo

Well, let me correct that. The idea of the appaernt contradiction between evil existing in the world, God's omnipotence and omnibenevelence is an old one. I think if this had been a recent event it would be in poor taste to capitalize on this girl's suffering and debate her eternal destiny on a public board. But apparently this is somthing that happened long ago. Out of respect for the girl however, I will not comment on particular eternal destiny.
Many Christians, even if they have strong beliefs concerning life after death find it in poor taste to speculate on the eternal state of individuals who have died. I am one of them.
I guess the reason is I don't feel it would be right to act as judge and jury. I leave it up to God. Also many Christians don't believe small children are held accountable. I still suspect that you are trying to trap Christians into saying somthing ugly about this girl.
I find that distasteful, considering this is a real person you are talking about.
I will only comment on the larger question:
God is either not omnipotent or he deliberately limits his power and only chooses to work through certian means.

Hedwig

I don't know...maybe slapped 'em with just enough fear of hellfire and damnation? Apparently that's the only thing that keeps people in line anyway.