Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Danya · 02-08-2003, 01:09 AM

Is it possible that the terrorist attack in Bogota was a message to the US for it's escalating interest there? The blast occurred at a club frequented by Columbia's political and economic elite. The U.S. ambassador's residence is located behind the club.

Looking a little closer it appears to be the same old thing...if there are weapons to be sold and oil to be had our government is right in the middle of it. I'm not well versed on Columbian issues so if this isn't how it appears I'm hoping someone will put it in perspective.

Quote:

The arrival of U.S. Special Forces trainers in this battered town last month signaled the beginning of a change that gives the United States more direct military involvement in Colombia's long civil war and could lead the country's two leftist guerrilla armies to broaden attacks against U.S. targets.....

In expanding the training beyond counter-drugs, the United States has abandoned an ambiguity that was once carefully cultivated by U.S. officials, promising to make the United States a higher-profile player in Colombia's 39-year-old war.

This month, U.S. officials will begin shifting military resources previously used in anti-drug operations in southern Colombia to this province, which lies on the Venezuelan border and is 220 miles east of Bogota, the capital. Helicopters will be used directly against the two guerrilla armies, which the State Department considers terrorist organizations. Under the program, the Colombian military is scheduled to buy additional helicopters and other military equipment.

The effort has been presented as a way to help Colombian troops protect an economically important government oil pipeline from guerrilla attack. But it is clear from the training taking place on an army base here that defending the pipeline will mostly entail offensive operations against the seasoned guerrillas who have prospered on this swampy stretch of oil and coca fields. The first military unit selected for training, for instance, is a counter-guerrilla battalion, not a unit whose principal task is to protect the pipeline.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38331-2003Feb6.html

John Hancock · 02-08-2003, 01:46 AM

Danya
I don't believe there is any creditable anti-narcotic efforts on the part of ether the US or any South American country It is essentially smoke and mirrors. It's not merely George's Hoover nose it's the total hypocrisy of a nation that preserves the best for the "best". Ah yes thin heart stopping flakes to be stepped on ado ado ado pity you've not known that fine emerald touch

Marvin (of adjustable morales) Martin like mushrooms.

moon · 02-08-2003, 01:48 AM

Columbia has been involved in a civil war for 4 decades running. This is really nothing new. The last I heard, there were an average of 20 political murders per day in Columbia, with an average of 2,000 refugees created every year.

Ever since Turkey succeeded in crushing Kurdish resistance in western Turkey, U.S. foreign military aid has shifted away from Turkey and toward Columbia, where atrocities have been escalating for the past 5 years. Columbia is now the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid (apart from Israel and Egypt which are in a separate category), and not coincidentally, it has by far the worst human rights record in the hemisphere.

The U.S. is propping up a brutal dictatorship that severely oppresses its population in order to protect what are called "U.S. interests," i.e. American based corporate interests. It is sort of amazing that the U.S. has not yet suffered any "blowback" for its monstrous crimes in Columbia, or, indeed, all of Latin America.

John Hancock · 02-08-2003, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moon
Columbia has been involved in a civil war for 4 decades running. This is really nothing new. The last I heard, there were an average of 20 political murders per day in Columbia, with an average of 2,000 refugees created every year.

Ever since Turkey succeeded in crushing Kurdish resistance in western Turkey, U.S. foreign military aid has shifted away from Turkey and toward Columbia, where atrocities have been escalating for the past 5 years. Columbia is now the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid (apart from Israel and Egypt which are in a separate category), and not coincidentally, it has by far the worst human rights record in the hemisphere.

The U.S. is propping up a brutal dictatorship that severely oppresses its population in order to protect what are called "U.S. interests," i.e. American based corporate interests. It is sort of amazing that the U.S. has not yet suffered any "blowback" for its monstrous crimes in Columbia, or, indeed, all of Latin America.

And he is right of course. Left right and up your middle. Let's talk chain saw

Martin

Aerion · 02-08-2003, 04:05 AM

The problem in Colombia is that the drug cartels have been commitiing acts of violence and corrupting the government for years.

The United States special forces is there to train the Colombian military and police in tactics to deal with the drug cartels. Since it is mostly American money used to purchase the drugs that funds the drug cartels, I think it is very responsible for the United States to help Colombia with this problem.

moon · 02-08-2003, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aerion
The problem in Colombia is that the drug cartels have been commitiing acts of violence and corrupting the government for years.

LOL! In fact, the Columbian government has always been deeply involved in drug trafficking. The "drug war" is merely a pretext fot the general U.S. policy of propping up police states that are serviceable to U.S. imperialism's interests.

May I point out how, once again, you have adopted an absurdity, but an absurdity that is highly serviceable to U.S. elites.

Quote:

The United States special forces is there to train the Colombian military and police in tactics to deal with the drug cartels. Since it is mostly American money used to purchase the drugs that funds the drug cartels, I think it is very responsible for the United States to help Colombia with this problem.

Hard to believe, when the drug cartels' greatest allies are in the Columbian government. No, the U.S. trains and arms Death Squads in Columbia for the same reason it trained and armed Death Squads in Argentina, Brazil, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Guatemala, namely to crush popular resistance to the corrupt and brutal dictatorship.

Danya · 02-08-2003, 06:53 AM

I'm beginning to see it this way too. The drug war started right around the end of the cold war. It would have been a great way to make sure our foreign military efforts stayed funded. Same with the war on terror except this is much better for them because they can work out in the open. How many of the old Reagan crowd responsible for the relationships we have with Saddam and Bin Laden are working in this administration? It's like the Reagan era all over again.

What I really resent is how here at home we are told we have to give up our precious freedoms and privacy because of terror and yet the foreign interference from our government (which is at the root of it all) shows no sign of changing. Worse, they now use it as an excuse to increase their efforts and try to legitimize what they do by forcing unwilling nations to go along with it.

VivaHedone · 02-08-2003, 07:02 AM

You may be interested in the following article, by environmental campaigner George Monbiot.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...888443,00.html

Danya · 02-08-2003, 07:23 AM

That is so scary in so many ways. This could be the future of America...or maybe on some level it already is.

Quote:

Colombia has one of the most unequal economies in the world - the top 10% of the population earns 60 times as much as the bottom 10% - and there is no room in that country for both the aspirations of the poor and the aspirations of the super-rich. One faction has to be suppressed.

And is this the atrocity that a US President could use to justify a war on Columbia ten years from now if it so wanted ala Saddam gassing his own people?

Quote:

The soldiers cordoned off the village while Casta�o's men moved in. They captured a shopkeeper, tied him to a tree, gouged out his eyes, cut off his tongue and castrated him. The other residents tried to flee, but were turned back by Ospina's troops. The paramilitaries then mutilated and beheaded 11 of the villagers, including three children, burned the church, the pharmacy and most of the houses and smashed the water pipes. When they left, they took 30 people with them, who are now listed among Colombia's disappeared.

And this is the kicker...

Quote:

The people funding this programme are Britain's allies in the war against terror. They are the people who have awarded themselves the power to arbitrate between good and evil. They are the people who will, within the next few weeks, attack Iraq on behalf of civilisation. "Throughout the 20th century," Bush told the US last week, "small groups of men seized control of great nations, built armies and arsenals, and set out to dominate the weak and intimidate the world. In each case, their ambitions of cruelty and murder had no limit." America's continuing adventure in Colombia suggests that little has changed.

02-08-2003, 01:48 AM	#3
moon Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: former British colony Posts: 2,013	Re: US Interference in Columbia Columbia has been involved in a civil war for 4 decades running. This is really nothing new. The last I heard, there were an average of 20 political murders per day in Columbia, with an average of 2,000 refugees created every year. Ever since Turkey succeeded in crushing Kurdish resistance in western Turkey, U.S. foreign military aid has shifted away from Turkey and toward Columbia, where atrocities have been escalating for the past 5 years. Columbia is now the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid (apart from Israel and Egypt which are in a separate category), and not coincidentally, it has by far the worst human rights record in the hemisphere. The U.S. is propping up a brutal dictatorship that severely oppresses its population in order to protect what are called "U.S. interests," i.e. American based corporate interests. It is sort of amazing that the U.S. has not yet suffered any "blowback" for its monstrous crimes in Columbia, or, indeed, all of Latin America.

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02-08-2003, 01:46 AM	#2
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	Danya I don't believe there is any creditable anti-narcotic efforts on the part of ether the US or any South American country It is essentially smoke and mirrors. It's not merely George's Hoover nose it's the total hypocrisy of a nation that preserves the best for the "best". Ah yes thin heart stopping flakes to be stepped on ado ado ado pity you've not known that fine emerald touch Marvin (of adjustable morales) Martin like mushrooms.

02-08-2003, 04:05 AM	#5
Aerion Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 476	The problem in Colombia is that the drug cartels have been commitiing acts of violence and corrupting the government for years. The United States special forces is there to train the Colombian military and police in tactics to deal with the drug cartels. Since it is mostly American money used to purchase the drugs that funds the drug cartels, I think it is very responsible for the United States to help Colombia with this problem.

02-08-2003, 06:53 AM	#7
Danya Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 638	I'm beginning to see it this way too. The drug war started right around the end of the cold war. It would have been a great way to make sure our foreign military efforts stayed funded. Same with the war on terror except this is much better for them because they can work out in the open. How many of the old Reagan crowd responsible for the relationships we have with Saddam and Bin Laden are working in this administration? It's like the Reagan era all over again. What I really resent is how here at home we are told we have to give up our precious freedoms and privacy because of terror and yet the foreign interference from our government (which is at the root of it all) shows no sign of changing. Worse, they now use it as an excuse to increase their efforts and try to legitimize what they do by forcing unwilling nations to go along with it.

02-08-2003, 07:02 AM	#8
VivaHedone Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Norwich, England Posts: 146	You may be interested in the following article, by environmental campaigner George Monbiot. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...888443,00.html

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