southernhybrid

Luvluv, I was raised in a Xian fundamentalist home and for many years I tried very hard to believe that it was all true. When I could no longer swallow the idea that Xianity was true, I studied many of the world's major religions and searched very hard for the one true one. Eventually I came to the conclusion that there was no god and there was no true religion. It just made the most sense to me after all of my investigation.

As to my lifestyle, I live a rather simple, yet satisfying life in a monogamous relationship for over 20 years with the same man. I don't do anything that most people would consider immoral. Personal morality and lifestyle do not usually equate with one's religious affiliation or lack thereof.

I'm not sure I get your point. I guess we all have develop a bias to support things we feel strongly about, but my original eye opening experience that there is no god had very little if anything to do with my personal bias. If anything I was biased in favor of a god belief. I think it's just hard for you to understand those of us who have arrived at this understanding, perhaps due to your own bias.

Ion

I second this:
My bias luvluv, as I posted in your thread, ‘Why are you guys so sure about Yahweh?’, is:
I first read the Bible based on its reputation, when I didn't have any scientific education yet, and I found it contradictory naive. I reread it almost right away, thinking I might have underestimated it, but I came back with the same impression.
Later on, I studied science, which completely shatters the Bible, and makes us coping with the natural laws through technology every moment of every day.

Koyaanisqatsi

If I may...



What "experience" would that be and at what point were you aware that it wasn't "enough to truly be saved" and how, exactly, did the likes of you know what only God knows and cannot inform you of in any way--including through your "heart"--since that would instantly violate your free will?

Wrong. You cannot do anything to be saved. It is by God's grace alone that you are saved at the same time that it was predetermined who was to be saved (144,000, I recall), so there is absolutely nothing whatsoever that you can do, say, practice, or preach that will result in any way, shape or form in your salvation.

For all you know, Hitler is right now sitting next to the thrown, because he correctly gleaned from Paul's letter to the Thesollonians that Jews are to be executed because thay are "hostile to all men" and "always heap their sins" upon themselves, accruing "God's wrath" for the murder of God's son/God.

The Lord moves in mysterious ways and cannot ever be truly known to you while living, even through revelation, yes?

As can most of us.

Nor could you ever know in your heart that God wanted you to just "live the wild and crazy life without feeling guilty," and for you to overcome your human influenced guilt, which is precisely why he lead you to live a wild and crazy life!

As before, yes, we know. I "truly believed" and the majority of my family still do.

Then Satan has fooled you and God has lost you to his influence, because Satan is the deceiver, making you think that black is white and white is black.

After all, the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight and you certainly appear to be spouting your own home spun wisdom of this world, yes?

It's a damn good thing you're not a puppet of cult control mechanisms, though! If you were, you wouldn't be able to submit so well to the will of your cult...I mean...God, and correctly assess all of the wisdom of this world so that you can be saved...or not...

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, so you might as well do what you're told to do "just in case," right? Or, I know! Why don't you remove yourself from being an active participant in society--like say, a monk--so that you can do absolutely nothing whatsoever but sit in a small cell praying that you are believing "enough" to be saved by a God that cannot save you based on how much you pray or believe, since that would mean heaven is a reward for services rendered, making God a player of favorites instead of the ultimate, impartial god of forgiveness and love, which he would have to be in order for him to be considered just.

Yes, I think that's the solution to your problem, luvluv! Do absolutely nothing at all for your entire life but sit in a dark room and do not do as the hypocrites do, but pray in silence. Completely isolate and remove yourself from anything to do with your fellow man so that you will be saved once you're dead.

Good thing fear, indecision and cult doctrine doesn't manipulate and motivate any of your own biases, eh luvluv?

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>