Jeremy Pallant

Ah, so I am not allowed to agree with you? I cannot change my mind? Amazing. I do the research to confirm your claims and you cannot accept that I might agree with you, at least in principle. That is, I agree that along with the Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, the Jews have a genetic connection to a chunk of land in the Middle East. Yet for some reason ypu object to my reaching this conclusion.

Weird.

Got a question for you. Apart from the Jews, who else have a right to return to their ancestoral lands?

I could as well argue that under the previously practical conditions in Germany during the early forties, the Germans had a right to exterminate the Jews. The basic argument behind your argument and that of the Nazis is "might makes right."

They didn't, of course, and neither do the Israelis. Nor do I see why the only right to land the Palestinians are entitled to is the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. Their genetic ancestoral rights entitle them to the entire region. Same as the Jews. But heavens forfend that you shoud suggest they should all live together.

Very suggestive that you don't support integration of these related peoples.

Personally, that is my preferred solution.

Explain, and provide links because I have no idea what you are talking about.

I must have missed that. I will review the thread.

So with regard to the ancestors of the survivors of the Trail of Tears, what do you suggest?

DOLBAC DENIS

To give a territory to a group of people for their religion cannot produce anything but anger for those who have different beliefs.
Moonists, Raelians, Jeovists, Scientos and the 4973 more sects existing around the world are potentially entitled to ask for their territory. Brittons/celts with druidic practices have tried to get their territory in france.

The SwampThing

This has nothing to do with religion.
It�s about an entire people, who got thrown out of their land (the native-americans), and a people who keeps trying to convince the world that they have the same similar rights to a land (the jewish people).

Most jews living in Israel now, are actually europeans who converted to the jewish religion. There aren�t hardly (in comparison) any real descendents of the people who once occupied that land. The grand majority are european jews, russians, polish, romenian, hungarians,germans,austrians etc etc.
Borders cannot be established based on religion, it�s just insane!

The fact is, Israel is already established, and cannot be undone.
Nor should it be undone. But the israelis must put aside their ideas of land heritage and land rights, simply because they have no superior rights whatsoever to that land. Infact, the palestinians have a stronger historical claim to the land, than any israelites.
Nobody is asking them to leave the land, we just ask that they allow their palestinian brothers a share of the land to form their own state, with full sovereignty, its own government, its own army, and international aknowledgement by the UN.

Similarlly to the israeli govt., the american govt. needs to allow the native americans to establish a nation of their own, in their ancestral lands, if that is their wish!
America needs to make peace with them, just like Israel needs to make peace with the palestinians. They both need to set aside their own delusions of grandure and notions of racial superiority, if they really desire peace.
It would be highly desirable to see the US govt conduct a Referendum, where the native americans can speak and choose for themselfs, wether or not it is their wish to form an independent indian nation.
The US�s economic might would not suffer, if they granted one of their States for the building of the indian nation. Like Alaska, or Arizona...They would still have 50 or so States left, right?

sphinx wui

The SwampThing wrote,

���and a people who keeps trying to convince the world that they have the same similar rights to a land (the jewish people).

Most jews living in Israel now, are actually europeans who converted to the jewish religion. There aren�t hardly (in comparison) any real descendents of the people who once occupied that land. The grand majority are european jews, russians, polish, romenian, hungarians,germans,austrians etc etc.
Borders cannot be established based on religion, it�s just insane!




The swamp Thing, don�t let this bad kid Sphinx wui infect you with his bigoted racist anti-Semitic anti over45 yo anti his father holocaust denying ideology.this bad kid also has a German mother and who knows what his grandparents did during WW2.
You have to read more about the holocaust before posting such things.


G.....

DOLBAC DENIS

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The SwampThing
[B]This has nothing to do with religion.
It�s about an entire people, who got thrown out of their land (the native-americans), and a people who keeps trying to convince the world that they have the same similar rights to a land (the jewish people).

Isra�l has no other foundation than religion.
Isra�l has no constitution.
The Torah is the law of reference.
The exodus is the result of strong disagreements between various religious practices.
BUT there are many atheists jews, even more strange, some are sionists some are anti sionists.
Why is the fight so tense between jews and muslims ? Like the protestants and the catholics, they are too similar.
:banghead: (Was this one invented for the Wailing Wall ?)

The SwampThing

???????????

RED DAVE

From Sphinx Wui:

As a non-Zionist Jew, I try to stay away from this sort of thing, but most European Jews have a common genetic descent from the ancient inhabitants of Israel cobined with European genes from various countries we tried to settle in and were kicked out of.

RED DAVE

enfant terrible

By your logic, the Gypsies have a right to all the territory from India to Spain.

sphinx wui

The SwampThing wrote,

???????????


I was trying to imitate somebody in the forum who used to turn any discussion into a personal fight. He was in war with me, won, declared victory! And all he needs now is to land on an aircraft carrier!!! I tried to call him Mr. To keep a distance between me and him and to send an indirect message to him saying �nothing personal� but obviously it didn�t work.

BTW, I am anti Michael Jackson also and he can add it to my Anti list.





RED DAVE wrote,

As a non-Zionist Jew, I try to stay away from this sort of thing, but most European Jews have a common genetic descent from the ancient inhabitants of Israel cobined with European genes from various countries we tried to settle in and were kicked out of.


It is very important for me to hear your opinion about the whole issue. As a Jew living in NYC, do you have any thing in common with a Jew living in Ethiopia for centuries other than the label �Jew�. what about the language, traditions and common history. In my opinion, a Jew living in Ethiopia is an Ethiopian and he has a lot more in common with his fellow Christian Ethiopians than he has with you including his color.

If you have different opinion than mine I will be glad to hear it.

Omar

The SwampThing

Red Dave,
that is actually my quote, not Sphinx Wui�s.
I did not understand what he was trying to say in his reply.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with anti-semitism or zionism. Those were your words.
The simple fact is that most israelis came from Europe, and i think no one disputes that fact.
Now, you can say they have some sort of genetic link to the ancient people who once inhabited that land, but i still would like to see that in paper.
Unless a national effort is undertaken, to determine every single israelite�s genetic background, all this is purelly academic.
Wich i doubt has ever been done.

The question is:
If i convert to jewish religion, and move to Israel, does that make me a PERFECT candidate to own rights on that land?
Had you read my post originaly, you would know what i wrote after, wich Sphinx failed to mention:
"Borders cannot be established based on religion, it�s just insane!"
The only accepted prrerrogative to make some one "elligeble" for claims of land rights, has to be history, and not religion.
As such, most israelis do NOT have that right, simply because they cannot be identified with the regional history.
Not to mention that not even those so called "pure" israelis, have got any land right claim. At least not a claim that superseeds the palestinian right to that same land.
The palestinians have been there before the israelis came, they remained there after the israelis left, and are still here when the jewish came back again!
With that in mind, if any people has a real right over that land, its the palestinian people (whatever their religion is), and not the israelis (with whatever religion they choose).
It is not about religion, it is about the historical rights of the ancient inhabitants of that land, and their descendents.

As for Sphinx Wui,
perhaps you can explain your post better, because i didn�t understand shit of what you said...