Ion

The 'Yahweh' business as described in the Bible, luvluv, is contradicted within its own text by inconsistencies, and is contradicted outside the text, scientifically.

So, I have no reson to believe in the Bible.

The most you get from the Bible believers, luvluv, is Gemma's faith (see here 'belief' a few posts ago) and your own faith, in materially unsupported interpretations.

luvluv

brighid:

Of course Judaism was influenced by pagans, the Old Testament is full of books describing the Isrealites relations with Ba'al and other gods. But the Bible makes it expressly clear that when the Jews entered into these worship practices they were commiting idolatry. To whatever extent they worshiped other gods they were outside the faith. That is basically the major theme of most of the Old Testament. The historical books and the prophets are almost totally about Isreal's repeated lapses into paganism. Yes the Jewish people dabbled in paganism but that does not make the Jewish religion polytheistic. And again, the fact that Jews dabbled in other religions is so clear in the Bible that it is in no need of extra-textural augmentation.

Answerer

Which part you don't get it LuvLuv? I think others and I had said it quite clear enough but its just that you refuse to accept them. Instead you beat around bush and said that Jews worship idols before Yahweh. Of course, most of us know that but the problem is Yahweh originated from one of the idols' names. If you look at the genesis, you will notice that many of fable tales like the Flood, the tower of Babel and the creation of Adam and Eve are similar to myths of the earlier pagan religions in babylon, etc.
Since the Jews had been one time captives of Babylonians, it is obvious that they 'borrowed' the myths of their religions and incorporated into their own. Therefore Torah's contents were originated from pagan influence rather than purely written by God.

luvluv

I don't know how much the name of God means, at the end of the day. I always got the impression that God didn't care what his name was: (His name just means I am, after all) and I was always struck by the fact that God did not offer his name to Abram, he gave Abram a name because Abram asked him for one. ("Who shall I say sent me?")

Yahweh's name is not as important as his characteristics, and the flood myths are also not central to Abrahamic theology. (I am not aware of any parallel Adam and Eve stories. Linkage?)

It's possible that God allowed himself to be called a name that was familiar to Abraham. From reading the texts, it appears as if God offers a name as an afterthought.

Just a preliminary opinion.

Ion

Forget God, gods, luvluv.

The Bible copies myths of that time, that's the point.

Answerer

Seriously LuvLuv, you obvously don't think that we will buy this kind of explanation or opinions, right?

sidewinder

luvluv: Why should we think your version of the Christian religion is the correct version and not some other Christian's version? How do you know that all you have explained here about the Christian religion is true? It's simply your version of it. There's a world of disagreement among Christians over all the details you've discussed here, and many more.

atheist_in_foxhole

He's right because he has "faith."

brighid

Yeap – just as He might allow Himself to be called Kali Ma, Vishnu, Shakti, Buddha, Freya, Zeus, Artemis or any other of the literally millions of Gods and Goddesses that have existed in myth through out time. However, as you stated about the OT and it’s idolatry it seems that your God is pretty darn clear that these others ones shouldn’t be worshipped, or as Christianity interprets it – they never existed – they are all just a figment of our imaginations.

So, I am afraid you can’t have it both ways. Abraham was allowed to call him by a different name – perhaps Baal, or Asherah, Tamut, or another Middle Eastern God or Goddess – but later the timeless, unchanging God of yours simply – oops, what’s that CHANGED HIS mind? Now, you aren’t allowed to use HIS name at all – you know that commandment about not using the Lord’s name in vain and really no one KNOWS His true name because Judaism had an absolute prohibition of anyone speaking it that’s why titles like Hashem, Elohim, etc. are used.

So, accordingly to Christianity there are NO other Gods. So why would the OT God allow Himself (knowing full well the future with his omnipotence) to be called by any other name, and yet send down severe punishments and dedicate a commandment to the very premise of there being ONLY ONE God (as interpreted by Christianity) and worship NO OTHER?

If it is your contention that any name will due, and all names lead to the ONE and ONLY God then it matters not if what religion a person is and therefore nullifies the need for the a sacrifice of the son of God (who really is God) to Himself to save everyone and further still there is NO need for Christianity and blind allegiance to this savior King.

Brighid

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: brighid ]</p>