Freethought & Rationalism Archive

openeyes · 02-03-2003, 08:34 AM

What lisarea, pz and cricket said.

Ab_Normal · 02-03-2003, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ojuice5001
The astronauts were in heaven, but they fell out. Why does Bush think that God is so indecisive that the astronauts have already been readmitted to heaven?

What's that you say? Being in heaven isn't the same thing as being very high up in the sky? Okay, but I'm not sure that the writers of the Bible would agree with that. Not all of them, anyway.

Thanks for the laugh. I really needed it!

(Yes, I am an insensitive git.)

BadBadBad · 02-03-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ojuice5001
The astronauts were in heaven, but they fell out. Why does Bush think that God is so indecisive that the astronauts have already been readmitted to heaven?

What's that you say? Being in heaven isn't the same thing as being very high up in the sky? Okay, but I'm not sure that the writers of the Bible would agree with that. Not all of them, anyway.

No kidding!

Mageth · 02-03-2003, 09:53 AM

Well of course he has the right to say whatever. He can even make astronauts� kids feel like low-life pieces of shit right now if that�s what he wants to do.

I seriously doubt if the President's words made any of the astronauts' family members feel like "low-life pieces of shit", no matter what their religious persuasion. I think such a conjecture is baseless and borders on hysterical overreaction. We don't know if any of the astronauts, or their family members, were atheists, or if they were, if they are so hypersensitive to their atheism that they would be deeply offended by Bush's comments at the time of their loss. I just can't imagine a family member, trying to deal with their grief with other family members, jumping up upon hearing Bush's comments and saying "Hey, that fundy bastard just made me feel like a low-life piece of shit! He's pushing his religion down our throats!" That is so bizarre that it borders on the ridiculous.

Bush's comments were of the typical generic and shallow religious type typically issued by presidents and other public figures at times like this. We've always heard them and we probably always will. Making a mountain out of the molehill of a president's heartfelt words of condolence only makes us atheists look insensitive and mean, IMO. There are many more important issues to expend our energy on, and further tarnishing the public's opinion of atheism by focusing on the president's words to a grieving nation is only going to be detrimental to our efforts on those issues, IMO.

Shadowy Man · 02-03-2003, 11:14 AM

But the point is, he didn't have to say anything religious to honor the dead and comfort the living.

Mageth · 02-03-2003, 11:23 AM

But the point is, he didn't have to say anything religious to honor the dead and comfort the living.

And my point is, I agree he did not have had to say anything religious, but he did, as he and other presidents have in the past and will in the future at times like this. Us atheists raising a big stink over this rather trivial incident at a time like this is counterproductive to our "cause", and will only make us appear insensitive, IMO.

Shadowy Man · 02-03-2003, 11:41 AM

I agree.

I certainly wish that he could have realized that he didn't have to say anything religious and wouldn't, out of respect for those of his "fellow Americans" who just might not share his belief system. But I've given up hope that he would actually do that.

I'm not offended by what he said.

Shake · 02-03-2003, 12:13 PM

Here is a pretty good piece from Slate.com on this issue.

Mageth · 02-03-2003, 12:19 PM

Good article, Shake. I like the last sentence:

"If Iraq insists on building weapons of mass destruction, we must fight not because God will protect us, but because He won't."

wildernesse · 02-03-2003, 12:53 PM

Here is a NYTimes article that mentions the religious organizations that some of the astronauts were members of, and also religious response to the Columbia disaster.

Quote:

In Houston, at a church that had been attended by two of the astronauts, Col. Rick D. Husband and Lt. Col. Michael P. Anderson, mourners packed the cavernous Grace Community Church to pray for men they had shaken hands with on Sundays. Mr. Husband was in the choir and sang solos.

Quote:

In Racine, Wis., which Commander Clark had considered home, worshipers at the Olympia Brown Unitarian Universalist Church lighted candles in remembrance of Ms. Clark. . . . .In the church basement, about 40 children prayed for the astronaut who attended the church when she was in high school.

I don't think that the President needed to inject religious overtones into his speech--but I think that his words are comfort to many. I do think that it's interesting that his Isaiah quote is not Isaiah speaking in the text, but God.

--tibac

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-03-2003, 08:34 AM	#71
openeyes Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,215	What lisarea, pz and cricket said.

02-03-2003, 09:53 AM	#74
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Well of course he has the right to say whatever. He can even make astronauts� kids feel like low-life pieces of shit right now if that�s what he wants to do. I seriously doubt if the President's words made any of the astronauts' family members feel like "low-life pieces of shit", no matter what their religious persuasion. I think such a conjecture is baseless and borders on hysterical overreaction. We don't know if any of the astronauts, or their family members, were atheists, or if they were, if they are so hypersensitive to their atheism that they would be deeply offended by Bush's comments at the time of their loss. I just can't imagine a family member, trying to deal with their grief with other family members, jumping up upon hearing Bush's comments and saying "Hey, that fundy bastard just made me feel like a low-life piece of shit! He's pushing his religion down our throats!" That is so bizarre that it borders on the ridiculous. Bush's comments were of the typical generic and shallow religious type typically issued by presidents and other public figures at times like this. We've always heard them and we probably always will. Making a mountain out of the molehill of a president's heartfelt words of condolence only makes us atheists look insensitive and mean, IMO. There are many more important issues to expend our energy on, and further tarnishing the public's opinion of atheism by focusing on the president's words to a grieving nation is only going to be detrimental to our efforts on those issues, IMO.

02-03-2003, 11:14 AM	#75
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	But the point is, he didn't have to say anything religious to honor the dead and comfort the living.

02-03-2003, 11:23 AM	#76
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	But the point is, he didn't have to say anything religious to honor the dead and comfort the living. And my point is, I agree he did not have had to say anything religious, but he did, as he and other presidents have in the past and will in the future at times like this. Us atheists raising a big stink over this rather trivial incident at a time like this is counterproductive to our "cause", and will only make us appear insensitive, IMO.

02-03-2003, 11:41 AM	#77
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	I agree. I certainly wish that he could have realized that he didn't have to say anything religious and wouldn't, out of respect for those of his "fellow Americans" who just might not share his belief system. But I've given up hope that he would actually do that. I'm not offended by what he said.

02-03-2003, 12:13 PM	#78
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Here is a pretty good piece from Slate.com on this issue.

02-03-2003, 12:19 PM	#79
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Good article, Shake. I like the last sentence: "If Iraq insists on building weapons of mass destruction, we must fight not because God will protect us, but because He won't."

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.