Gurdur

Austin, James H.
Zen and the Brain : Toward an Understanding of Meditation and Consciousness
MIT Press, Cambridge, MA, USA: 2001

James Austin is only one of many Westerners who have delved very deeply into extremely rigorous forms and disciplines of Buddhism.

Seraphim

"Austin, James H.
Zen and the Brain : Toward an Understanding of Meditation and Consciousness
MIT Press, Cambridge, MA, USA: 2001
James Austin is only one of many Westerners who have delved very deeply into extremely rigorous forms and disciplines of Buddhism. "

My reply : Do you know what is the highest state a Buddhist could achieve in a Buddhism? State of Nirwana where one leaves his or her own body freely and never to enter state of rebirth again.

Since 1900s, there been reported of several monks able to mummified themselves, in regions such as Thailand, Laos and Vietnam and in Japan, there were cases of couple of Warrior Monks (followers of Zen Buddhism) mummified themselves around early 1900s (1910 if not mistaken). A mummified monks simply remains of someone who achieved Nirwana.

In the East, such feat of escaping life, death and rebirth is the goal of every Buddhist and a true Man is some who tries to achieve such task and a true Buddhist is someone who achieve it.

In that context, is a feat of publishing a book under a University name is considered to be such a great feat? If that is all that West have to offer, I really don't see what Buddhism could possibly do for you.

Living Dead Chipmunk

I thought racism was a CHRISTIAN virtue...then I find a Buddist who believes nobody outside of the Indian subcontenent can ever reach enlightenment.

Tell me again why anyone should take you seriously? If you have such a low opinion of "the west", maybe you should stay off our internet? Or is your whole existance defined by how much you can insult us?

Answerer

Well, I'm sure that not all westerners had experienced freedom, wealthy and power in their societies. There are others whom I believe had endured great hardships before and are therefore determined and spirtually inclined.
Anyway, Buddhism had only been generally accepted by the west for one or two centuries only. So, its a bit of unfair to judge them by their achievements now. Remember the same thing occurred in China for the first few centuries when Buddhism had just arrived.

Seraphim

"I thought racism was a CHRISTIAN virtue...then I find a Buddist who believes nobody outside of the Indian subcontenent can ever reach enlightenment."

My reply : racism is never a Christian "virtue" alone, it is one of "virtues" of humanity. Religion has no virtue, humans put it there in attempt to make sense of it.

And I will change my mind (which I'm entitled to) once I see some positive moves from your society that you are willing to at least push in the right direction. Till then, your books doesn't mean much to me since making definations of Buddhism is useless since each person's defination depends on him or herself, not some "wiseman" from Cambridge or other Universities.

"Tell me again why anyone should take you seriously? If you have such a low opinion of "the west", maybe you should stay off our internet? Or is your whole existance defined by how much you can insult us? "

My reply : I never asked anyone to take me seriously, nor did I asked for permission for anyone to speak freely. I believe that is your choice and mine respectively.

I couldn't mind staying out of the Internet, IF people don't bring in odd defination of other people's religions and culture into it. As long it exists, it is my right to be there as well.

Insult or encouragement? It is upto personal view to judge. I will say what I see, you are to judge based on what you understand.

By Answerer

"Well, I'm sure that not all westerners had experienced freedom, wealthy and power in their societies. There are others whom I believe had endured great hardships before and are therefore determined and spirtually inclined."

My reply : Sorry, unacceptable statements. By historical facts, Western world acheived greater amount of freedom, wealthy and power since 1800s (in expense of the East and some region in South America) compared to the West. Some region in China for example always indulge in internal struggle that it can overshadow the American and Europe's power struggles.

"Anyway, Buddhism had only been generally accepted by the west for one or two centuries only. So, its a bit of unfair to judge them by their achievements now. Remember the same thing occurred in China for the first few centuries when Buddhism had just arrived. "

My reply : This is acceptable. Buddhism is new, brought into US and Europe mostly by immigrants and I guess the overall society (Westerners included) started to get interested in it from 1950s.

What I like to point out is the so-called "experts" which seems to be arising from with the Western society with their own definations and breakdowns of Buddhist principle. Does printing out of book or making lecture in a University or a college or even staying in the East for a few years supposed to make a person a Buddhist (or another religion/principle) expert?

Living Dead Chipmunk

You're right. The west sucks.

By the way... HOW long did we keep Asia under our thumb as colonies before we decided to let you try to fend for yourselves (which you're, honestly, not doing too well)?

Seraphim

"You're right. The west sucks.
By the way... HOW long did we keep Asia under our thumb as colonies before we decided to let you try to fend for yourselves (which you're, honestly, not doing too well)? "

My reply : How long? Lets see ...

Most of the South East Asian countries reached independence around 1950s - 1960s and they were under colonial influence of forces such as the British and Dutch for at least 100 years.

India was under British since 1780s (if not mistaken) and got independence at end of 1940s (after getting whacked like nobody's business from a SINGLE man with a cane, white dhoti and a shaved head).

Japan never was under anyone's occupation till losing the war in 1940s. Till then, it was a real pain in the rear end for most of other Asian countries. Oh yeah, did I tell you about Japan beating the crap out of Rusia in 1905?

China and Manchuria (now known as Korea peninsula) was in state of turmoil since 1850s due to foreign and Japanese influences and got their indepence around 1940-50s (not after fierce struggles).

Well, now Asian countries are doing much better than what they were during the Colonial times. Japan is only second in the world market to the US, China managed to become its own superpower by its own rights, most of the Asian countries are at peace with each other (except for minior annoyance now and then like the terrorist etc), and Indian is on its way to becoming a developed country (after its fix some of its internal problems).

We (the Asians) are in better condition now then when we are under colonial influence and I guess we will continue to grow as we should in the future.

Gurdur

This strikes me as an argument verging upon racism itself.


India won its own independence, against opposition.
Vietnam won its own independence, against great opposition.
China won its own independence, against great opposition.
Japan always kept its independence, against opposition.
Indonesia won its own independence, against opposition.

hmmmmmmmm.

Gurdur

Thank-you for this insight.
If I may, a question or two:
1) If I mummify myself, will you then accept me as a Buddhist ?
2) How do you tell between a mummified corpse of someone who has attained Nirvana, and a mummified corpse of someone who hasn't ?
3) Or are all mummified corpses those of people who have attained Nirvana ?

But surely that would mean ancient Egypt was the most Buddhist land ever !

Seraphim

If I may, a question or two:
"1) If I mummify myself, will you then accept me as a Buddhist ?"

My reply : Depends on how you do it.

"2) How do you tell between a mummified corpse of someone who has attained Nirvana, and a mummified corpse of someone who hasn't ?"

My reply : Two ways - One by getting to know how a person lived when he was alive (whether he followed Buddhist principles or not STRICTLY) AND by amount of meditation he does. In the West, meditation is simply to relaxed the mind, in the East however, it is a step toward accepting death.

"3) Or are all mummified corpses those of people who have attained Nirvana ?"

My reply : Depends on where you found them and what state they are in.

"But surely that would mean ancient Egypt was the most Buddhist land ever "

My reply : Nope, the Egyptian Mummies are not considered as same as Mummified monks of Asian region. Why? The reason is :

1. People who been perserved have died of other causes other than accepting death (like a monk does) such as disease, other natural dead or unnatural deaths.

2. People who have been perserved this ways do not live a life in strictness of a Buddhist. I have some insight of Egyptians mythology and their religion and I can say that their religion is more toward Abrahimic ways rather than Buddhism.

3. People who had been reserved this ways had their organ removed and cleaned by other people before playing them into jars where it is kept for judgement. According to Egyptian mythology, organ like the heart will be weighted in front of Osirius, the God of Judgement. In mummified monks, ALL organs remains inside the body.