fwh

Ierrellus:

Thanks! The David Chalmers site is one of my favorites. I skimmed quickly the Carruthers article and didn't see anything paricularly odious. It's clear animals are not concious(or have any thoughts about) of their birth or their impending death: indicating that they have no unindividuated meaning or any thinking about thinking. They have an organic connection to the environment which humans don't have because of our subject/object relation to the world around us. I thought you were indicating a distate for Carruthers thoughts in an earlier post . Is that true?

Ierrellus

fwh,

Yes, I have a bias against Carruthers simply because I believe he attempts to place human standards for thought on animals. Elephants, "knowing" that they are about to die, journey to their own common {for elephants} burial grounds. Experiments with chimpanzees have proved that they are conscious of self.

The way, IMO, to study animal consciousness should be from the vantage point of what the animal can think, not from what it cannot think.
If we believe in evolution, we must accept other animals as what they are. I am not convinced that some animals cannot think of thinking.

Ierrelles

PAX