Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Loren Pechtel · 06-13-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid

Birth control works when used properly. Failing to take ones pills on time, or missing a day here and there WILL provide a female with the opportunity to get pregnant, but when taken consistently and in conjunction with other forms of birth control (such as a condom, etc.) I can at least say that I have not had a pregnancy scare in 10 years of sexual activity (except when I failed to take my pill properly.) Every woman I know that uses birth control responsibly ( their partner with condom usage) haven't had to deal with unwanted pregnancies. This doesn't mean that women will still get pregnant on the pill (for various reasons), but the chances are slim and if her partner is using a condom and spermicide she is VERY unlikely to get pregnant until she wants to.

My parents went 20 years on barrier contraception (she couldn't take the pill), no failures.

fatherphil · 06-13-2003, 09:48 AM

is there really a good precaution out there for stupid people? "contraception" seems to involve a series of qualifiers to be really successful and folks that act irresponsibly seem to be in no danger of dieing out.

when talking about abstinence programs and the bible belt, the question of what this has to do with abortion arises unless you can correlate abortions to these unplanned pregnancies. in other words, if pregnant kids in the south are not utilizing abortion to solve their problem, their existence has little effect on the number of abortions.

let me ask this: would the number of abortions be reduced if the procedure was made illegal? this seems like a rhetorical question because the answer could only be yes if approached honestly.

Dr Rick · 06-13-2003, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk
The hard cold fact remains, If contraception worked then there'd be no need for an abortion industry.
Obviously abortion is necessary to women because contraceptives don't work. The argument is a house of cards.

The hard cold fact remains, If cars worked, then there'd be no need for a car care industry.

Obviously, a mechanic is necessary because cars don't work.

Godless Dave · 06-13-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
is there really a good precaution out there for stupid people? "contraception" seems to involve a series of qualifiers to be really successful and folks that act irresponsibly seem to be in no danger of dieing out.

No, there is no good precaution for stupid or irresponsible people, which is why abstinence programs don't work either.

brighid · 06-13-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

when talking about abstinence programs and the bible belt, the question of what this has to do with abortion arises unless you can correlate abortions to these unplanned pregnancies. in other words, if pregnant kids in the south are not utilizing abortion to solve their problem, their existence has little effect on the number of abortions.

Women and girls in the bible belt still chose abortion! Part of the "practical solutions" about reducing abortion and maintaining a morally consistent pro-life approach is to incorporate proper sexual education of minors. Since the conservative, pro-life crowd equates birth control to murder/abortion they hamper and limit the abilities to teach proper sexual education, and for women/girls to obtain proper birth control. Therefore they contribute to the abortion issue by failing to effectively teach their children how to remain pregnancy free until the proper time. Abstinence only education DOES NOT WORK!

Quote:

would the number of abortions be reduced if the procedure was made illegal? this seems like a rhetorical question because the answer could only be yes if approached honestly.

It might, but that doesn't mean this would be good or even morally consitent with a pro-life world view. Women would still seek and receive abortions, but at great cost to their health, life and future fertility (unless of course you are rich and can afford to go out of the country for this medical procedure.) It was cause a greater burden on the state and it would cause the deaths of both mother and child. How is that pro-life?

If you want to lessen abortion then address the reasons why women will risk their lives, health and future fertility to obtain illegal ones, address the reasons why American women feel the better choice is abortion and not bringing a child into this society, teach self-control and personal responsibility and model the societies that have long, proven track records. If you are really interested in saving lives and promoting the health and welfare of families get off the anti-abortion band wagon and start working for the changes that actually make a difference in the lives of the born and the unborn.

Brighid

fatherphil · 06-13-2003, 01:37 PM

what band wagon? i'm not on one, are you?

Loren Pechtel · 06-13-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
Abstinence only education DOES NOT WORK!

Works fine--at demonizing sex.

Opera Nut · 06-13-2003, 09:08 PM

Oh yeah, Bridgid, don't forget those "Pro-family" parental notification laws that the anti-abortionists have gotten passed in many of the states. They think that if they talk to their parents before getting an abortion, that will somehow help their parents deal with them. Oftentimes the parents throw the girl out on the street and she is homeless and practically guaranteed no prenatal care, no good nutrition. This is a situation practically begging for a malnourished defective child to come into the world, or mother and baby both to die trying.

In one case, a girl had to tell her mother she was pregnant. That meant she had to tell her mother that her father had raped the girl. The father found out, shot the mother and daughter dead, and then killed himself. That did a lot for "familly values"!!

Oh, and also a girl has to go in front of a court to prove she is "mature" enough to get an abortion.
I do not know why a 12- year-old or any young girl is not mature enough to get an abortion, but is automatically mature enough to be a mother, with all the responsibilities it entails.

Bumper sticker: HOW COME I'M MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHILD BUT NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO GET AN ABORTION?
:banghead:

Loren Pechtel · 06-14-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut

Bumper sticker: HOW COME I'M MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHILD BUT NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO GET AN ABORTION?
:banghead:

Oh, but having a baby will make you grow up very fast!

fatherphil · 06-14-2003, 08:43 AM

but don't you think that bringing up extreme cases detracts from the main point of discussion and general thrust of the debate?

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06-13-2003, 09:48 AM	#152
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	is there really a good precaution out there for stupid people? "contraception" seems to involve a series of qualifiers to be really successful and folks that act irresponsibly seem to be in no danger of dieing out. when talking about abstinence programs and the bible belt, the question of what this has to do with abortion arises unless you can correlate abortions to these unplanned pregnancies. in other words, if pregnant kids in the south are not utilizing abortion to solve their problem, their existence has little effect on the number of abortions. let me ask this: would the number of abortions be reduced if the procedure was made illegal? this seems like a rhetorical question because the answer could only be yes if approached honestly.

06-13-2003, 01:37 PM	#156
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	what band wagon? i'm not on one, are you?

06-13-2003, 09:08 PM	#158
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Oh yeah, Bridgid, don't forget those "Pro-family" parental notification laws that the anti-abortionists have gotten passed in many of the states. They think that if they talk to their parents before getting an abortion, that will somehow help their parents deal with them. Oftentimes the parents throw the girl out on the street and she is homeless and practically guaranteed no prenatal care, no good nutrition. This is a situation practically begging for a malnourished defective child to come into the world, or mother and baby both to die trying. In one case, a girl had to tell her mother she was pregnant. That meant she had to tell her mother that her father had raped the girl. The father found out, shot the mother and daughter dead, and then killed himself. That did a lot for "familly values"!! Oh, and also a girl has to go in front of a court to prove she is "mature" enough to get an abortion. I do not know why a 12- year-old or any young girl is not mature enough to get an abortion, but is automatically mature enough to be a mother, with all the responsibilities it entails. Bumper sticker: HOW COME I'M MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHILD BUT NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO GET AN ABORTION? :banghead:

06-14-2003, 08:43 AM	#160
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	but don't you think that bringing up extreme cases detracts from the main point of discussion and general thrust of the debate?

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