Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jane Bovary · 07-21-2003, 09:21 PM

Australia is
* hot, dry, dusty, outback, with
* the world's most poisonous snakes;
* the world's most poisonous spiders;
* the world's most poisonous octopus (blue-ring);
* the world's most poisonous ants (jack jumpers);

Really? Sounds awful.....I'd better get out of here.

kwigibo · 07-21-2003, 09:24 PM

New Zealand and Australia were the first countries to grant women suffrage, respectively. That's pretty similar. And Australia was populated predominantly by free settlers, we're not all descended from criminals.

Hayden · 07-21-2003, 09:32 PM

Very well then...

NZ was settled with a different approach with regards to indigenous people. The Treaty of Waitangi (Te Tiriti o Waitangi) - so-named because of the place where it was signed - guarantees the rights of Maori. In parts of Australia, hunting Aborigines as sport was legal until relatively recently. Maori are quite a strong political force, at least more so than we perceive Aboriginals to be in Australian politics.

Profound enough?

HR

mongrel · 07-21-2003, 09:32 PM

Yellowjackets are what European wasps are generally known as in Europe and North America. Down here, we just call them wasps- even though we have various species of native wasps too.

Jumping jacks I think are the same type of ant- the black ones with orange mandibles, about half an inch long. And they jump...

Anyway, profound political statement; Little Johnny sucks!

echidna · 07-21-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hayden
In parts of Australia, hunting Aborigines as sport was legal until relatively recently.

Without sounding too much like Mr. Windshuttle, are you sure that's so ?

Hayden · 07-21-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by echidna
Without sounding too much like Mr. Windshuttle, are you sure that's so ?

Here's a link, although pertaining to Tasmania in the 1800s (not as recent as I'd thought):

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poe.../tasmania.html

Of course, I can't speak for its accuracy.

Here's another:

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/austra.html

Check the links at the bottom of the page.

HR

echidna · 07-21-2003, 11:07 PM

Yes, I suppose it depends a lot on one's understanding of "relatively recently". The reason I make the Keith Windshuttle reference is that he is at the heart of the latest controversy over the Tasmanian Genocide. He's generally labelled as a revisionist ...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...639607,00.html

Quote:

However, after examining all the archival evidence and double-checking the references cited by the most reputable academic historians of the subject, I have concluded that most of the story is myth piled upon myth, including some of the most hair-raising breaches of historical practice ever recorded. Here are some of the transgressions by its leading historians.

Lloyd Robson claims that settler James Hobbs in 1815 witnessed Aborigines killing 300 sheep at Oyster Bay and the next day the 48th Regiment killed 22 Aborigines in retribution. However, between 1809 and 1822 Hobbs was living in India, the first sheep did not arrive at Oyster Bay until 1821 and in 1815 the 48th Regiment never went anywhere near Oyster Bay.

Robson and four other authors repeat a story that 70 Aborigines were killed in a battle with the 40th Regiment near Campbell Town in 1828. But all neglect to say that a local merchant told a government inquiry that he went to the alleged site with a corporal on the following day but could find no bodies or blood, only three dead dogs. "To tell you the truth," the corporal then confessed, "we did not kill any of them."

Ryan cites the Hobart Town Courier as a source for several stories about atrocities against Aborigines in 1826. But that newspaper did not begin publication until October 1827 and the other two newspapers of the day made no mention of these killings.

Ryan cites the diary of the colony's first chaplain, Rev Robert Knopwood, as the source for a claim that between 1803 and 1808 the colonists killed 100 Aborigines. The diaries, however, record only four Aborigines being killed in this period.

Hayden · 07-22-2003, 12:28 AM

Well, I had no idea who Windshuttle was, which might have been obvious; I don't know.

Anyway, I had heard (anecdotally) that in QLD it was legal to hunt Aborigines until about 1960, although I see from the links above that in places they weren't even legally human until that time.

I have to admit that I have next to no knowledge of Australian history...

HR

echidna · 07-22-2003, 01:20 AM

Hmmm, it may well have happened, but I doubt it would have been legal. 91% of Australians voted for Aboriginals to be given official voting rights in 1967 (in one of Australia's very few "yes" referenda).

Boro Nut · 07-22-2003, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rudolk
I'm planning on buying a broadsword and traveling to NZ to run around the countryside for a few years. The more beasties the better, I say. I need a really short hairy dude and a waify blond guy to come with me though. Let me know if anyone's interested.

Kurt

I'd join you if I could. That film had a big impact on me too. I really began to relate to the hero, and was quite shocked when they killed him. It spoiled the ending for me. Mind you, I have started to model myself on him a bit. I grunt mostly now, and only ever eat manflesh, after dark.

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07-21-2003, 09:21 PM	#51
Jane Bovary Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Fatal Shore Posts: 900	Australia is * hot, dry, dusty, outback, with * the world's most poisonous snakes; * the world's most poisonous spiders; * the world's most poisonous octopus (blue-ring); * the world's most poisonous ants (jack jumpers); Really? Sounds awful.....I'd better get out of here.

07-21-2003, 09:24 PM	#52
kwigibo Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia Posts: 5,814	New Zealand and Australia were the first countries to grant women suffrage, respectively. That's pretty similar. And Australia was populated predominantly by free settlers, we're not all descended from criminals.

07-21-2003, 09:32 PM	#53
Hayden Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 712	Very well then... NZ was settled with a different approach with regards to indigenous people. The Treaty of Waitangi (Te Tiriti o Waitangi) - so-named because of the place where it was signed - guarantees the rights of Maori. In parts of Australia, hunting Aborigines as sport was legal until relatively recently. Maori are quite a strong political force, at least more so than we perceive Aboriginals to be in Australian politics. Profound enough? HR

07-21-2003, 09:32 PM	#54
mongrel Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North of the South Pole Posts: 5,177	Yellowjackets are what European wasps are generally known as in Europe and North America. Down here, we just call them wasps- even though we have various species of native wasps too. Jumping jacks I think are the same type of ant- the black ones with orange mandibles, about half an inch long. And they jump... Anyway, profound political statement; Little Johnny sucks!

07-22-2003, 12:28 AM	#58
Hayden Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 712	Well, I had no idea who Windshuttle was, which might have been obvious; I don't know. Anyway, I had heard (anecdotally) that in QLD it was legal to hunt Aborigines until about 1960, although I see from the links above that in places they weren't even legally human until that time. I have to admit that I have next to no knowledge of Australian history... HR

07-22-2003, 01:20 AM	#59
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Hmmm, it may well have happened, but I doubt it would have been legal. 91% of Australians voted for Aboriginals to be given official voting rights in 1967 (in one of Australia's very few "yes" referenda).

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