Kosh

You quoted it. Right there in Mark 16:5 that you copied in your own reply. (we're assuming here that the "young man" is an angel), if not, you've got an even bigger problem...

...entering the tomb they saw a young man.

JohnV

Yes, they did. Where does it say they saw only one?

Kosh

I see, we're going to play that game. If you only had Mark as a reference (and Mark was the first gospel written, and Mathew and Luke copied from Mark) how would Mathew and Luke have known that there was a second angel in there?

Also, would you care to address the conlicting seating position of the angel(s)?

JohnV

Let's see...in my account they left for the tomb before sunrise, and arrived at the tomb shortly after sunrise. Where would that put them "just after" sunrise? They'd still be "on their way to the tomb," just as you quote Mark as saying. There's no conflict. I think you misread me or Mark.

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: JohnV ]</p>

JohnV

Well, if asking you to back up your claims about the text with actual quotes from the text is a game, then - yes, we're going to play it.
Interviewing one of the women themselves would be one way, although this line is straying off-topic.
Sure. Tell me where you see conflict, and I'll address it.

MortalWombat

That's a pretty good trick to use two different accounts to resolve the conflict, one of which (John 20) says "1Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance" and the other (Matthew 28) says "1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

They both say they (or she) went to the tomb, yet you manage to somehow claim that one author means that Mary Magdalene only left during the dark, while the other author says Mary and Mary arrived after sunrise. Do you also claim that Mary Magdalene left before dark alone (as in John), met the other Mary along the way, and then they both arrived after sunrise (as in Matt.)?

JohnV

It's not a trick, it's interpretation, and it's very common. Earlier in the thread, we used the same or similar methods to resolve the conflicts in Barker's own accounts of the challenge, and no one called it a trick!
Yes, and it seems to reconcile this aspect very well.
I don't see the word "alone" in John.

Butters

Yep. Sorry 'bout that. We'll save it for another day.

MortalWombat

Wow, that's neat. Can we use the same technique with, say, the legend of the Holy Grail, in which one medieval author, Chretien de Troyes, claims that the Grail is a platter or dish, while another, Robert de Boron, says it's a chalice, to conclude that it started out as a dish then turned into a chalice?

JohnV

Ah, mocking incredulity and an attempt to draw me off-topic. Stick a fork in him folks - he seems to be done!