Totalitarianist

I am all agreement.

HaysooChreesto!

Like so many others here Gurdur, do you actually have anything constructive to say? Being a good smartass requires at least a small measure of wit.

Optional

And would you happen to know the actual origin of said mass graves?

It seems that immediately after GWI we encouraged the iraqis to RISE UP and REBEL against the monster hussein!! We told them we'd HELP them if they would just HELP THEMSELVES!! And they HEEDED our call and did RISE up to rebel, all but two provinces I believe. And WE, us princes among men, WE ... did nothing. Helped not a jot. In point of fact, we relaxed the no-fly zone enough to allow saddam to use helicoptors, among other things, to suppress the rebellion.

Understand, if we'd lifted a SINGLE FINGER to help, or probably even just did NOT lift a finger to help SADDAM, the rebellion almost certainly would have SUCCEEDED. Saddam would be a dozen years in his grave as we speak.

But... Apparently we (and when I say 'we', I mean our current president's father) realized that if we let a popular rebellion actually succeed, we would have absolutely no control over what they would do with Iraq, or more to the point Iraq's OIL, afterwards. We would have no guarantees that whoever eventually gained control wouldn't be hostile to US interests.

Better the devil we know, eh?

So we let, helped, saddam put down the rebellion, and he did so brutally, thoroughly, and with little regard for human life. His forces would sweep through a town and anybody who even LOOKED like they might have THOUGHT about helping the rebellion got marched to the edge of town to one of those mass graves you so decry. Whole families marched in together, you understand. All under the watchful eyes of US Intelligence.

But now, THIS TIME, all the killing was because we were JUST THAT CONCERNED about the poor downtrodden IRAQI PEOPLE. Poor darlings. This was all about COMPASSION, and SHAME on those of us who suspect ulterior motives! SHAME on those of us who would deny them the chance that WE (us princes among men) have GIVEN THEM to rule their OWN DESTINY (subject to rules and limetations, may not apply in your country, not to be construed as permission to act outside of the Will of the USA as Manifested in her Favored Son GWB)!!

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

-me

Laci

I think we went into Iraq honestly expecting to find WMD. And still will eventually.
But after I saw and heard the atrocities that occurred in Iraq from that dictator Saddam, I feel convinced that we did a good thing.
However, I think we all need to be a little more patient as to a new government being set up. I don't think the USA wants any part of their government. But they also don't want a govt where a new dictator like Saddam comes into power.
We tried as best we could in a war, to not kill civilians. But it does happen. We hoped very few soldiers would die. And that did happen. Of course, one is bad enough.
Hopefully our being in Iraq in some way, will finally get rid of the terrorists. And also bring Israel and Palestine to a compromise.

Zar

I'm curious. What in your ideological background as a "totalitarianist" compels you to agree?

Autonemesis

Actually, no. Rumsfeld says it's on us, not them:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1514&ncid=1480

Jat

Guess what? Saddam wasn't all that different than other leaders in the area. It is only that he wasn't pro-American. The American government is willing to overlook much as long as they can get what they want.

Jat

An empire can took many forms. In this case it is an empire where the USA benefits from its "interests" overseas while not actually having to directly rule its possessions and giving these peoples the same benefits as it gets.

Totalitarianist

1. Totalitarianism is not an ideology.

2. How does my advocation of totalitarianism conflict with my agreement?

3. I am a "totalitarian"; not a "totalitarianist"; "Totalitarianist" is just my alias.

Ion

I am sure you did go "...into Iraq honestly expecting to find WMD.".

Not me, though:

I didn't go.

I swear it:

.) applying the same standard as required in my work, I don't hold myself to "...honestly expecting to find..." valid results unless I exercise professional integrity and competence in the matter;

.) by this standard, I couldn't fathom the Bush Administration going "...into Iraq honestly expecting to find WMD.", either;

.) I didn't conceive though, that who goes "...into Iraq honestly expecting to find WMD." has a lower standard than me;
for example, see the U.S. forged document about the link in nuclear equipment between Nigeria and Iraq, document that triggered in the U.S. Congress the U.S. declaration of war against Iraq;
after considering this false document by Bush, count how many Iraqis were killed and maimed by it.
Nah:

.) as pointed out in the last post by Optional, the U.S. developed Saddam Hussein;

.) when Hussein became too full of himself in front of U.S. interests -like trading Iraqi's oil in Euros and not in U.S. dollars anymore-, then U.S. 'liberated' Iraq like U.S.S.R. 'liberated' Afghanistan in 1980;

the "...atrocities that occured in Iraq..." don't count to U.S. more than the "...atrocities that occured..." in Rwanda, or more than U.S. financing Somoza's "...atrocities that occured..." in Nicaragua;

therefore, 'liberating' Iraq is now Bush's 'Plan B' for media propaganda, because his 'Plan A' (i.e.: existence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq) got ridiculed by facts.