Sheep in the big city

I actually do believe that most xtians don't believe in God.
They make up 80% of the US population. So the people here and the whole country should behave a lot differently if they really believed that their lifes here are just an infinitesimally short span compared to the eternity they spent afterwards in paradise.
For instance, why would a true believer be bothered by 9/11? Why would he consider murder of xtians in general as bad for them, since they just get to heaven earlier. Why does he opt to buy a SUV instead of saving the lives of 100s of children in Africa - which would help him a little more to get into heaven.
Why is the US the biggest per capita polluter of the beautiful planet God made by a huge margin?
And so on ...
I've met noone so far who behave as if he really believed in God and heaven.

Autonemesis

Next post says it better.

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

Autonemesis

You're absolutely right, GeoTheo. 9/11 is the perfect example of the implications of following God. I submit that you do not take your religion as seriously as Mohammed Atta took his. I question your faith in light of Atta's example. Who was more sure of his reward, more filled with faith and hope on that September day, Atta or GeoTheo?

I defintely do not like the implications. Not one bit. You are 100% correct.

Bible Humper

Yes, I call this general idea "No Theists In The Foxholes"

Someone truly convinced that each moment of life is merely a waste of time keeping them out of the euphoric paradise behind the sky wouldn't bother hiding in holes to escape getting shot.

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper ]</p>

NOGO

Jamie, do not let this nonsense influence you. Your arguement is totally rational and valid. GeoTheo cannot counter it in any way. Instead he tries to influence you with the only way religious types know how. Guilt!

It goes something like this... You do not want to believe in God because you prefer to do whatever you want (ie be evil) so you lie to yourself and make yourself believe with all sorts of rational arguements that God does not exist. In this way you are free to do evil. So come to God and all that is good and be at peace with yourself.

GeoTheo must be at peace with himself since he is on God's side so he assumes that nobody else can be unless they believe. So you must be lying.

I have not believed for 34 years and I am complete as ease with my position. Not only that but I would never loose a single oppotunity to help a fellow human being steer clear of religion.

agapeo

Why should you?
No, your mommy and daddy did and I suspect they would want you to use it.
Are you complaining?
True! But you do have control over what program you watch.
Have you ever seen the picture that shows how different we can perceive things? It's the picture where to one person the woman looks like a high-society Lady and to another person it looks like an old hag.
Don't you know?
Take your pick. You could start with your mommy and daddy.
Why? Do you mean to tell me that you find it easy to believe everything a fellow human being tells or shows you?
We're all dealt cards from the same deck.
Maybe God likes you better as an atheist.

Jamie_L

I realize I've posted like two or three threads that are saying kind of the same thing, but I'll keep plowing through all of them.

GeoTheo:

Moral indignation circuits shut down, but on standby.

Of course it's possible for someone to really believe in God, but lie about it. As far as you know, I could be one of those people. I won't get all upity about that. No harm, no foul.

On a more general note, however, do you think there are any people out there who fit the situation I described in the OP? Do you believe there are people who have honestly concluded God doesn't exist? If you think such a person does exist, apply the OP questions to that person. Why is that person an atheist, if God wants the situation otherwise? Or do you think God does not want the situation otherwise?

Or, do you believe that there is not one atheist in the whole world who has honestly concluded God does not exist?

Jamie

GeoTheo

Jamie,
I think it is quite possible that for you at this time God is a "dead hypothesis." Which means you have no use for God. That doesn't mean you won't have a need for Him in the future.
I think you have to want to believe to believe. The will does get involved. Someone hit on it earlier that some poeople are unwilling to step out and engage God with that small amount of Faith that is required to initially believe.
At this time you see no reason to do so and so don't. God won't force you. No one can prove He is not there and no one can prove He is. But I doubt anyone remains neutral on the subject their whole life. Our brains are not so powerful that it is a good idea to continually hold out for more knowlwdge. It may never come. One needs to eventually act and make a decision. You will eventually reach a point where it can be true to say you have rejected God.

NOGO

Your problem is that you are too smart to listen to the likes of GeoTheo.

agapeo

Originally posted by Jamie_L:
True! But if they stay shutdown for too long they might rust over.
True! But why?
Only to your character in the eyes of others.
Sure!
Absolutely!
Why do our children grow up to be other than we wish or would want? Why don't they listen to and follow our instructions? Why do they think they know better than us?
Nope.
Nope. I'm sure most have. Just ask them.

I could say I was GeoTheo, but I'd be lying.