Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 08-22-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
There's a great Dudley Moore movie called Bedazzled which retells the Faust tale. In one scene Dudley asks the devil why he rebelled and the devil says that he couldn't take all the praising. Dudley says" oh, that doesn't sound so bad." The devil hops up on a mail box and says "lets try it, shall we. You dance around and tell me how wonderful I am." Dudley does, "You are so good looking, you are great, hey lost a little weight." "Keep going," the devils says " more about how wonderful I am and keep dancing." The scene lasts about two more minutes before Dudley agrees that the devil had no other choice because praising sucks so badly.

And the point of this little story? I seriously doubt we will be doing nothing but praising God all eternity long. He will have plenty for us to do.

Biff the unclean · 08-22-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
And the point of this little story? I seriously doubt we will be doing nothing but praising God all eternity long. He will have plenty for us to do.

But you just said "And i'd rather spend all of eternity praising and worshipping God..." The point is that you are describing a kind of Hell and calling it Heaven

jfryejr · 08-22-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
What makes you think you would believe anyway? People in the Bible that saw Jesus perform miracles still didn't believe who He said he was, what makes you think you'd be any different? Maybe God knows you would still ignore Him, so He doesn't bother? /shrug

Have you ever seen the Statue of Liberty disappear? I saw it on TV. Have you ever seen a man sawn in half? I saw it in real life. What miracles? People flat out asked for a sign:

Matthew 12:38-39 (NRSV) 38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you."
39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."

Jesus said no and called them names. Let's have some ad hominem here...

If he actually performed miracles, where was his huge following. Here?

Matthew 21:9 (NRSV) 9 The crowds that went ahead of him and that followed were shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest heaven!"
10 When he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was in turmoil, asking, "Who is this?"

These were same ones who cried out, crucify him? The whole city of Jerusalem? in turmoil?

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
I'm just doing what atheists do. If it looks like the most plausible explanation, it probably is.

The most probable explanation is that much of the NT is fabricated to make it apparently fulfill OT prophesy. Is it more plausible that an entire population of a city is in turmoil over a man, rejoicing him as the messiah, then turns against him a couple of days later...or that parts of it are made up? It's just as plausible as Jesus riding into Jerusalem on two asses at once...(Matthew 21:7)

winstonjen · 08-22-2003, 07:18 PM

Magus:

Quote:

Its not like Muslims know for a fact that the Quran is a made up story, and blow up buildings in a mythical gods name just for fun.

The Christian religion is no better. The major difference is that they wish to oppress and slaughter people 'legally.'

reprise · 08-22-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Basically, Jesus will "rapture" all believers both dead and alive and bring them to Heaven. Then Jesus will unleash the 7 seals and cast Judgement on the world that now consists of nothing but unsaved sinners. After the 7 years of judgement ( known as the Tribulation), Jesus will return to Earth (His second coming) at the mount of Olives, and rule over the world for 1000 years ( the Millenium Kingdom). This will be a time of complete and absolute peace. The people that live during this time will be those that survived the Tribulation and accepted Jesus as their Savior. After the Millenium kingdom, God will bind Satan and the fallen angels to the Lake of Fire, destroy the Earth and recreate it to perfection, and then the Great White Throne Judgement, where God judges the lives of every human and whether they received Christ or not. Those who are judged guilty and without a Savior will be cast into the Lake of fire for eternity, those that are judged blameless through Christ will spend the rest of eternity in New Jerusalem ( Heaven on Earth).

I liked the plot of the Foundation series better.

Maybe Jebus could return holographically at times of crisis, a la Hari Seldon.

Hedwig · 08-22-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
And the point of this little story? I seriously doubt we will be doing nothing but praising God all eternity long. He will have plenty for us to do.

Like what? Seriously...I'm curious as to what you think we'll do.

Hedwig · 08-22-2003, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
What makes you think you would believe anyway? People in the Bible that saw Jesus perform miracles still didn't believe who He said he was, what makes you think you'd be any different? Maybe God knows you would still ignore Him, so He doesn't bother? /shrug

If he already knows that some of us aren't going to accept him, and knows which ones will and which ones won't, what's the point of having us be born in the first place? Just to fill up space in hell?

Hedwig · 08-22-2003, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55

What your point? They believe that their religion is right because nothing has told them otherwise. Once David Koresh died, his followers gave up on him.

Sorry but that's not entirely true. I've met people who now, years after Koresh's death, still see him as the messiah. We get some kooky people here in Oklahoma.

jfryejr · 08-22-2003, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hedwig
Just to fill up space in hell?

He does like the smell of roasting meat...

Exodus 29:18 (NRSV) and turn the whole ram into smoke on the altar; it is a burnt offering to the LORD; it is a pleasing odor, an offering by fire to the LORD.

mark9950 · 08-22-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

He does like the smell of roasting meat...

Yahweh also like human sacrifices too.

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