dracon427

Well, I sure don't belive there is anything "godlike" in me, yet you don't see me out there killing people do you? I also don't surrender to any "monsters" in me and last time I checked I was an atheist. Why don't you go on to explain how I am an atheist, yet I have a conscience? That is if it doesn't blow your mind too much that a person like me can have one.

Ape31

I just got a really warm feeling reading that - the love just oozes off the page. Tell me Dj, does you church also help out the coons and the ragheads?

Ape31

Biggus

You're not mocking him are you?

Careful, you don't want his just and fair god pissed off at you. You never know when he/she/it'll send the wildlife after you:
What a charming little cult.

Chuck

I believe he may be referring to the so-called "reach around" courtesy.

Corona688

There's nothing "simple" about it. Why should we? We are capable of forming laws, societies, and have done so, no god needed. So have some 'beasts', on a lesser scale. Why is a supernatural god needed to create conscience? Conscience simply makes a great deal of sense, from an evolutionary point of view, and from a human point of view. It encourages cooperation. Sorry, but you are wrong. The only 'natural ramification' of atheism is that you don't believe in a god.

Certainly, atheism on it's own is rather thin stew. It's like basing your life around the fact that leprechauns don't exist. In fact it would be a really stupid thing to describe oneself as, if there weren't people like you who keep telling me that because I don't believe the same way you do I ought to go out killing and raping people. I have a different foundation of my beliefs, and if you're really interested in what it is instead of just wanting to sling mud at me, click here. For that matter, why should we believe that there's anything godlike in us? christianity would have us believe that we are all dirty, worthless sinners, and you tell me that there's bits of god in us? That's one hell of a contradiction there.

Humans aren't perfect. That doesn't mean that we are worthless, flawed, and bestial. I do not ignore it(nor is it a 'voice' as such. More of a feeling.) I simply see no reason to label it 'god'. Certainly there seem to be people whom 'god' tells things that you don't agree with, and there is also good evidence that it is learned. Exactly. What good's a label that has nothing to do with what people actually believe and do?

maddog

From the opening post, this has been a remarkable exercise in the Golden Rule. This for me illustrates the danger of the Golden Rule as a moral precept: do unto others as you would wish done unto you. It begins with the lowest common denominator of one's own tolerance and then projects that onto others. I somehow doubt that Donjared would really wish to be treated in the manner in which he opened this thread. In that case, he has forgotten to practice the Golden Rule. If, however, he really thinks it is OK for people to treat him this way, then it becomes justifiable to him, in applying the Golden Rule, to treat others equally badly. In that case, he is practicing the Golden Rule, but the Golden Rule ends up not looking terribly moral, at least to me.

There are a couple of Brass Rules floating around, too, such as "Do unto others as others have done unto you," or "do unto others before they do unto you." I prefer Steven Covey's formulation of the Platinum Rule, which is along the lines of "do unto others as they would wish to be done unto." Applied literally, this could end up justifying treating a masochist badly, but I hope to take things in their higher sense, in which case it means taking account of the other person's feelings, wishes and values, and not simply projecting one's own. It is more "other-centered" than "self-centered."

At any rate, I note, Donjared, that you are a new user. I don't feel all that expert myself, and there are plenty of people here with much more experience and knowledge than I. Welcome to the boards.

Clete

Donjared,

Are you really so shocked by people's opinions on here concerning your religion's holy trinity? This place is called the Internet Infidels Discussion Forum for crying out loud! What did you expect?

As much as I may disagree with most Christian beliefs, I have never in my life posted a message like yours (or any message for that matter) on a Christian forum. Kind of like going over to a stranger's house and critiquing their decorating sense, it's just plain old inconsiderate.

If you want a friendly debate or understanding of someone else's world view, I think most people on here would be open to that. But a full-frontal assault like yours is just obnoxious.

Anyway, if your goal was to be provocative and get a bunch of posts I guess I've fallen into your little trap. Hooray for you.

Biff the unclean

Aaaah too bad. A thread addressed to me, that I missed before it was sent to the pit of Elsewhere. Oh well, for politeness sake I'll respond anyway.

The Church has been a source of great comfort too BILLIONS of people. Can you say the same mean Mr. Biff.
Firstly I'd be willing to bet that your church is some flavor of Baptist. Baptists bring comfort to no one. Secondly I don't have a church

It has also been a source a great charity and compassion. My church alone feeds, clothes and houses hundreds of people in this area. What do we ask for in return? Zip, zilch, nada.
Oh now, you know that isn't true, 'fess up.
The only reason churches help people is to lure them in. After all your religion in itself is of no value at all. Are you starving? We'll give you some watered down soup. But first you must swear your life to Jesus. Are your children sick? Well we have some third rate medical care here for you IF you become a Christian first.

What do you all do? Do you actually DO anything worthwhile?
Professionally I'm a scientist. I add to the collective knowledge of humankind.

I know that bad things have happened and continue to happen. I also understand that any human institution is subject to these problems.
And you know that your church falsely claims not to be a human institution and requires you to turn a blind eye to all their shenanigans

I also understand that the good we do is MY focus, while the occasional bad is YOUR focus.
So if you see only the good and shut your peepers to the bad you help perpetuate the bad. Shame on you.

I also understand that no amount of good we do will ever redeem us from your hatred because you are bigoted and angry and thats the root of it all.
I am bigoted. Bigoted in favor of truth and honesty. Your religion is founded on a lie, it is supported by lies. I am quite angry at liars, it saddens me that you are not.

Truly, you fellas can not see any redeeming qualities with our faith because you just dont want to. It's got nothing to do with the TRUTH and everthing to do with passion.
Your FAITH has nothing to do with truth, that's why you have to have faith because you have no facts.

If I am wrong about the Father and Christ and everything else, I at least have done some good down here.
No you haven't. And by the way we are not "down" anywhere.

Am I motivated by Christ to do so? Ofcourse! Not from fear of Hell, but rather from the love He himself showed by going all the way for me (and you! Whether you care or not.)
You are motivated by to erroneous concept that you, and all of mankind, are unworthy sinners.
As for the question, Why do you hate us so much?
Because you (collectively) are misanthropic, anti-intellectuals.

don't hate you and neither does God. I think He laughs and says,"I got some brainiac children who need a whoopin." And He loves you just the same.
You don't even get the irony of this do you? Earlier you complained that Atheists don't think you are very bight (actually some Atheists do, not me, but some) And here you are portraying God as making fun of us for being intelligent and about to attack us for our considered opinions.
But there isn't any God, that's just you pretending and showing your true colors.

Where do you suppose people go when they are broken and hurting? To their local Atheists club or whatever you guys have? No way man! They come to the Church.
Well of course the church can help. Because there is nothing really wrong with these people to begin with. The CHURCH is the one who tells them that they are broken, damned, unworthy, sin natured and fallen. The CHURCH sells them the cure for the ailment that the CHURCH gave them.
Atheists don't have to go anywhere because we aren't broken to begin with.

Everyone likes to bring up Homo's (as if this one group invalidates all the rest) but my pastor is always helping these guys. We don't hate them, we go out our way to help them.
Right, you want to help them stop being Homos, that's how much you like them. Just like you Baptists want to help Jews by converting them.

Whenever there are times of trouble, Church membership goes up. Why do suppose thats true.
Because the church is a scam that unfairly victimizes people who are in trouble.

The Church is THERE for us to EASE our misery. I hope I don't sound pissed, because I'm not at all.
You do sound pissed. You sound like the victim of a con job who has been told that they have been tricked and doesn't want to believe that they could be so stupid.
The church can "EASE our misery" really? Are you such a child that you need someone to say "there, there, everything will be alright"? Because adult need problems solved, not comforting. The Church doesn't solve a goddamn thing.

If we are not created in the image of a loving God, than we are simply beasts.
Teach your children that they are descended from a pile of dust and they will treat people like dirt.

Because at creation God put a little of Himself in us.
He blew on us with a magic breath, just what you would expect in a bronze age myth.

We call it a conscience.
You've never noticed your pet dog feeling guilty over some infraction of the rules?

I think that the natural ramification of Atheism is that we all surrender to to the monster in us.
And you had the balls to call us bigots.

We stop believing that we have anything Godlike within us and just ignore the voice that says,"Hey man that isn't RIGHT."
Are you so filled with hate for anyone who isn't a Christian that you feel free to lie about us so blatantly?

BruceWane

We hear these kind of condescending little phrases all the time.....but what's particularly ironic is your very next sentence

A riddle which you already answered yourself..............

Yeah, a lot of us do. I'd say a higher percentage of atheists actively do things that are positive for their community than theists. Dropping a couple of dollars in the collection plate on Sunday doesn't count for all that much in my book. Do you feed and clothe those needy people, or do you just contribute to your church? None of this crap about "at MY church WE help the needy" when you attend morning services so you can be home on the couch watching ESPN by noon.

And if you need any more evidence that your statement is a steaming pile of ignorance, do this one little exercise.

Name a couple of theists that have contributed more to charity than Bill Gates and Ted Turner (Both atheists).

Donjared

Where to begin? There so much to respond to that I don't think I can. Seriously, but I'll try.

One thing stands out very clear. The Church seems to be as misunderstood by you all as Atheism is supposedly misunderstood by me. By and large the comments made are very tired and untrue. However you would not know the comments are ignorant because you don't attend my church. I know you guys ( and Gal ) don't like to be treated like Satan worshipers. But can you understand that we Christians don't like to be treated like medieval dullards? In fact it was this attitude in college that soured me on Atheists to begin with. Certain elitist professors like to have religious folk that they can make examples of so-called ignorance. Why? I honestly don't know. The only thing that made me different from him, is that I believed in God as the Source of all things and he did not. I don't know who or what you all believe was the cause. The Big Bang was the result, but what about the cause? Whats WRONG with believing in GOD? I understand that a large majority of scientists in every field are atheists. But a great many scientists in every field are Christian too. And a great many whom are not Christian still believe in a Source because life seems to be way to complex to have evolved in the 3 billion years the Earth has been around.
Now since this thread has to to do with anger (BTW your forum bosses won't let me post any new threads :boohoo: ) I should address the lady mad at Christians. The quotes you cited were a bit outdated, don't ya think? I'm sure that Atheistic men in those days felt the same exact way about women. Do you think we hear that stuff from the pulpit today? The last sermon we had on marriage focused mainly on husbands treating their wives with respect and affection. This admonition comes from St. Paul (most Atheistic women usually hate Paul because of the "be silent in the church" comment.) He said to love our wives the way Christ loves us. Women ofcourse, are expected to treat their husbands in like manner. Is this really as awful as you make it sound? Thats what I mean about you folks (GUYS term amended). Seriously, look at some of the preceding comments. Its exactly what I expected when I trolled them. All the hate, all the anger, from people who claim to be so detached and wise? I should have never been able to extract these comments from people so much smarter than us stupid religious folk. Maybe a little humility before God would do you some good? Biff kind of says it all for me. Is there a greater example of ignorance to modern day Christians and Christianity?
As for the charity challenge, get serious? Nearly every Western charity in existence has its origins in the Church. God bless Bill Gates and Ted Turner for the good they do. I mean that. But don't even try to match the generosity of billions of Christians across the ages. You couldn't come close. You all seem to think we have some secret motives in our giving (and yes ACTIVELY helping) other people. What can I say? You're wrong. If one thinks that accepting Christ into your life will genuinely help you, should we be faulted for saying so? Tell that to my father who nearly drank himself to death, had no place to live, no food to eat, and didn't give a damn. Jesus through the Church saved him from a life of alcholism and misery. Do you think my dad wished they would of just given him the food and shut up about Jesus? No way.
For Dissident Aggressor-for what its worth, it'll probably get deleted-I hunt big game (Elk, mule-deer, Bighorn sheep) with my 7mm Turkish Mauser or 30-06. I hunt birds with my 12g double barrel breech loader. Bow hunters have all my respect. I went bow-hunting with my buddy (I borrowed his recurve) and missed every shot I had. I can hit a target in the backyard, but thats about it. What do all hunt in Florida? White tail?

Well, I apparently am no longer allowed to even reply to your posts so I will have to say so long, its been educational.