Majestyk

sweep

winking again majestyk? thats alright, we're only human.

Well, maybe not me, I have green eyes

back to bullying>>>

callmejay

It's sad that bullying is really how human nature seems to work, by default. For example, in areas with no stable government, like some third world countries or US inner cities, power is usually held by those with the most soldiers and guns... i.e. the biggest and baddest bullies. Somehow, parts of humanity have managed to make tremendous progress on this. In the US, there is still much bullying on a micro level, but the macro-level bullying is much constrained from what it could be. Sure, big companies like Microsoft bully (not physically, I assume) the competition, the US government bullies the people and other nations, but most of the country is relatively peaceful.

Schools are the same way. If they aren't well-policed, either directly or through instilling some sort of moral code in the students (if that's possible) then bullying is going to be the way of things. I was bullied and I did some bullying in my day, which I feel guilty about. Luckily, it wasn't severe in either direction. I do have at least one friend who is significantly messed up emotionally do to the relentless bullying she experienced growing up.

I think we should do all we can do (within reason) to prevent bullying and not to be surprised when it happens if we don't. As for that zero tolerance crap, that's just stupid. The right to (reasonable) self-defence is more important than any other. It was a big day when I got big enough to sit on my bully's chest for 20 minutes. I didn't hurt him, but it sure embarrassed him and he never picked on me again. (I might not have been so lucky if he were disposed to weapons, of course.)

Cipher44

Storytime, chilluns. Gather 'round.

I was bullied from the time I was six until I was about thirteen, mostly by the same kid, a waxy-faced little prick named Tom. He had a long line of subordinates who came and went through the years, but the common thread was always Tom.

I did everything I was told to do, most of which was a lot of well-meaning crap adults tell kids that doesn't work out in real life. You know - try to be his friend. Tell him to fuck off. Insult him back. Ignore him and he'll go away (more like: see it as a challenge and up the ante ). When I was ten one teacher even told me to go ahead and punch him out. None of it worked, and you don't punch someone out who is a head taller than you and, more importantly, outweighs you. And you know, I don't think even successfully beating him up would have done the trick anyway. This kid had decided that the fact I existed offended him.

It was mainly verbal, emotional and - oddly enough - psychological. When a new kid would come to the school, I (being the misfit and lowest on the social food chain) would try to befriend them. But it wouldn't take long for the new kid to discover that if you're not in good standing with the predators, you are by default the prey. I can think of at least three instances where I made friends, only to have them turn on me later. And there was none of that "we made up later and it all worked out in the end" stuff, either.

All of this isn't to say there wasn't any physical harassment - that was there, too. I was usually small and fast enough to avoid beatings, but there was the other forms of assault - being pushed down in the hall/schoolyard, being "pantsed," shoved head-first into garbage cans, you name it.

When I was in Grade Five, I decided to kill Tom. It was a simple question of survival - I had to get up every day and go to a place I hated and spend six hours not knowing when and how I would be tormented. When you're ten, how the fuck can you be expected to face that? At that age, a year is an eternity.

So one evening I put a large butcher knife in my bookbag. Tom had taken to walking past my desk and giving me a slap or an insult; I figured I'd plant the knife in his neck. But that morning, I took the knife out of my bookbag - I'd never really intended to kill him. But here's the kicker - it certainly wasn't because I valued his life; it was fear. I figured I'd be sent to "reform school" and taken away from my home, which was a good and loving one and my only refuge. There was no act of conscience involved - if I could have killed him and gotten off clean, I would have done it in a heartbeat. I hated him that much.

It got far worse in Junior High, when the student population grew and cliques formed. It got so they used to order me to do stuff like get down on my knees and kiss their shoes ... and I did it. I did it because I was fucking exhausted. I'd tried everything, I'd brought every tactic I could think of to the table, and nothing had worked. So I just figured I'd satisfy them so they'd leave me the hell alone.

What I remember most clearly is apathy from all sides. The teachers could really do nothing - and weren't particularly interested in doing anything anyway. I remember meetings between my mother and the principal, I remember phone calls to the school and arguing bitterly every morning about staying home. I was a goddam little kid, I didn't know what I was supposed to do to stop this shit, and nobody was helping me. They teach kids that when you are in trouble, you go to an adult. Then you learn that's bullshit. And so much for the Catholic school's "love thy neighbor" garbage.

One thing they could have done would have been to separate me and Tom. Put us in different classes - there were usually two for each grade. My mom often insisted they do just that. They never did. And I didn't want to leave the school, for two reasons - one, what few friends I had were there, and two, I knew for certain I'd be even worse off in public school (being small for my age, bespectacled, and blessed with a turtlish overbite).

I suspect they never separated us because, in their well-meaning stupidity (that it is well-meaning doesn't excuse it), they thought that by keeping us together, we would eventually "settle our differences" or some such steaming sentimental pile. Again - real life doesn't work that way.

Now, as for how it's affected me, I'll say this: it built in me character enough to know that meritocrat's line about how bullying "builds character" or that it "is a part of growing up" is a load of shit. I've heard it all before. I've heard all the lines about how it's a part of growing up and how it can never be stamped out because it's "human nature." And I repeat - it's all shit. If there is nothing else that separates this miserable species of ours from the rest of the animals, it's that we are rational beings who can change our natures. We're spectacularly good at manipulating everything else about the world - why not our own goddam selves?

I know it's affected me in terms of my self-esteem, my ability to trust people, I know it's made me introverted and I know it's at least partially responsible for the personal demons and problems I face right now in my life. It's not a matter of "crying over the past," but one of programming - years of bullying implanted in me certain tendencies which I still notice in myself.

So take all that "it builds character" garbage and stick it. It's lazy, and it's irresponsible. Kids are getting fucking shot over this, they're fucking hanging themselves over it, so I'd say it's about time we did something about it.

sweep

the fact that I can relate to your story, cipher, makes it all the more compelling. A very touching and hard-hitting account.

you know, if we're kept in fear, and we don't communicate as a group, then we have no personal power. That's why it helps me to know that people like you, are brave enough to stand out for everyone else who can't get rid of that awful feeling of apathy and loneliness.

thanks again

Majestyk

And this is why the adult custodians have to be involved. And to get them involved we have to admit that the capacity for bullying is inherent in each and every one of us.

If, we can teach the morality of kindness and subdue the capacity for bullying, great but once it has manifested itself, the situation must be dealt with under the supervision of adults. It is when the adults abdicate the responsibility in this matter that the situations escalate to emotional or physical catastrophes.

This is part of the problem. We are not rational beings. We are emotional beings with the capacity for rational thought. We experience emotions first and apply reason after.

Abrahamic teachings have led us to believe that we are not animals. We as a culture, even when rejecting the religion, still cling to our illusion of superiority over all other life. The claim, that we are rational beings, is false. Extrapolating solutions from a false premises will not, generally, lead to sound conclusions.

I empathize with your situation. I agree that prolonged consistent subjection to intimidation as a child will have a very negative impact on the adult into which that child grows. Which is why we have to better understand or own nature, accept it, and properly confront it.

Denying, ignoring, or applying methods based on religious dogma to it are most likely the reason you suffered from it for seven years.

Laziness and the lack of responsiveness is what allows childhood bullying to become a traumatic experience. I'm not suggesting that we allow children to develop their own "Lord of the Flies" culture. That is exactly what I believe we have now.

Look into the background on these instances and I think you'll find that adult neglect is at the problem of each and every one.

I agree. Let's start by not letting our own emotions over our personal experiences distort the reality of our nature. Then maybe we can give those that we charge with custody of our children the tools they need to address the problem.

It would help if, we were sane but we're not so, we'll just keep trudging along carrying the burden of our own divinity like a sack of rocks.

Opera Nut

Cipher, excellent story. I can relate. I didn't get beaten up, I ran fast but as far as the emotional and psychological abuse, yes I can very much relate. I told the kids to go to hell. I was sheltered so I didn't know about "fuck off, eat shit and die".

As I said, I got called "QUEER" so many hundreds of times it was disgusting. This was before the days of the word gay or fag.

However, getting hit in the head with a basketball deliberately is not fun. They could have fractured my skull or severely hurt me. I also got tripped playing Red Rover, which could have killed me too.

I was dealing with redneck trailer trash as they call it these days, sort of like the vermin on the Jerry Springer Show.

MzNeko

Cipher44 - :notworthy

Thank you. I've been reading this thread for a while now and every time I started to type something, I got too worked up to be coherent.

You said it. And so much better than I could express it.

I didn't get the physical aspect of it as much - it seems like when I was growing up, girls weren't as physically involved in bullying but the verbal/emotional abuse was still there, and there was always the implicit threat of violence in the background. And boy-on-girl bullying has some really nasty overtones and implied threats, too... even without being beaten up.

I wanted to kill them. All of them. Any of them. I think the only thing stopping me was the question of what would happen to me afterwards. When the Columbine thing happened, one of my first thoughts was "That could have been me ten, fifteen years ago." I was certainly carrying enough rage around inside me. The fantasies in my head at the time are best not gone into.

But I'm feeling much better now.

I suppose if growing up to be a cynical misanthrope with trust issues is a good thing, the bullying I experienced could be considered a beneficial thing.

Bree

:notworthy

I once brought a scalpel to school with the intention of slicing the Achilles tendon of the #1 athlete at the high school. I was 9, he was 16. Every day on the bus he'd make me lay on the floor and he'd brush jelly through my hair - I figured that as long as I was down around his ankles I might as well do something about it. Well, wouldn't you know that I got caught with the knife. 3 days suspension and I had to eat lunch with the principal for the rest of the year. Of course, Mr Football Star got nothing for his trouble - however, he did get killed in a car accident (fucker was drunk) the following year and I can't say I felt too bad about it.

All bullying teaches you is that there are people out there who are bigger and badder and will kick your ass unless you can think of something even worse to do to them. I can't think this is a healthy way for a child - or anyone - to think.

Ab_Normal

*sigh* Now I'm dealing with this issue first hand... my daughter is in fourth grade, and is smaller than her classmates. She's already had a run in with one of her classmates, who took something from her on the bus. When we called the other girl's parents, they gave us the "She said it accidentally fell into her backpack, and we believe her" crap. My daughter got her item back, but still... :banghead:

So, this weekend the same girl was visiting another kid on our block, and my daughter went over to play with a whole group of kids. And thug girl starts pushing my kid around, forcing her to the ground, and ignoring her pleas and those of the kids around her to knock it off. I didn't hear about it until my daughter came home and the other kid was already gone. We're going to call her parents again, and I'm sure we're going to get the same brush-off. "Our daughter would never do that." Fuck that noise, she did!

As a parent, I can understand taking your child's side, but you also have to have your eyes open. When my kid is accused of something, I listen to the accusation, investigate, and then kick ass when my spawn is found innocent. But, damn it, no matter how implausible it seems to me, I look into it. Because it's my responsibility to socialise my own kid.