brighid

I don’t think there are any easy answers to what should be done with rapists and murders. I think we should focus a lot of attention on prevention, but once the crime is committed not simply determining guilt but also determine the psychological reasons WHY this individual committed rape or murder and attempt to evaluate their potential for future crime.

In the case of rapists, some may be guilty of only one crime and may be very unlikely to repeat the offense again if they are punished and the “logic” behind why such a thing happened can be addressed and corrected. There are others who are beyond help and the criminal act of rape is part of their learned nature. I am probably a bit too close to this subject to provide an objective solution to deal with these type of men. I am not sure how effective chemical or voluntary castration is for these men, as I am unsure how ones actual sex drive plays a role in this crime. I believe the serial rapist does it less for sexual gratification, but for psychological satisfaction. But then again can the psyche be factored out when examining the sexual drive of a human being?

Generally, I do not support the death penalty for crimes – at least in it’s current state of application because of the very poor track record the conviction rate has been. I support it in the cases of conclusive DNA and physical evidence has determined the guilt of an individual, but in absence of DNA and other physical evidence I do not support it.

I personally feel each instance must be judged on a case by case basis that follow basic guidelines, but aren’t absolutely confined to them. I also personally feel that rape convictions should be dealt with more sternly and that most sentencing guidelines are far too weak for the damage that crime does.

Brighid

One_King_Down

Well I support the death penalty in cases where there is hard physical evidence against the defendant, when nothing is subjective. So it cases where it is apparent that the person commited these crimes in cold blood then by all means end them, especially the child molesters.

Rape and murder is a little more complicated. Don't get me wrong, rapists are right down there with child molesters as far as scum of the earth go, but i think it can be a more complicated crime. The fact that some woman(or men, no need to be gender biased) lie is taken care of by lack of hard evidence. But people interpret different situations differently, just look at the thread in misc. discussions on rape. It's a complex issue. But when it's apparent that it was rape, I mean the criminal went into the situation with no intentions but to rape and assault the victim, then they should die. But not after bubba gets some vigilante justice in the showers.

Murder in self defense, fine by me, people have to be able to defend themselves. Any 1st degree murder with hard evidence(physical, DNA etc..) should be sentenced to death, at least with the present overcrowding in prisons. Second degree should be like in prison without parole, that's it you fucked up, took someone's life, now think about that for the rest of your life.

I really don't care if these people are "cured" or not. Regardless of whether they make progess they will be haunted by their crimes forever, and given the severity of the crimes we're discussing I dont think life on the outside would be any better for them once people found out what they did...IMO

OKD

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: One_King_Down ]</p>

Dr Rick

You are both right (except the part about "they can't get" erections; castration does not eliminate the ability to obtain erections in post-pubertal males with fully-developed secondary sexual characteristics though it usually decreases the sex-drive) because these are two related but seperate issues; rape and pedophilia.

There is good evidence that castration decreases recidivism rates in pedophiles, probably because it decreases their sex drive. Pedophiliacs have poor impulse control, so dimishing the urge to have sex with children makes it easier for them to deal with their paraphilia.

Rape is a crime of violence and power, so it's not surprising that measures that decrease sex drives in rapists are not as effective as they are in pedophiles.

Rick

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

Jamie_L

One comment:

All hard evidence passes through the hands of human beings. You can never generate 100% certainty of guilt in a trial situation. Human error and even intentional malice can convict an inocent man with "entirely objective evidence."

And a jury of twelve people is still just a group of twelve ordinary people.

That's why I don't support the death penalty.

Jamie

RogerLeeCooke

You've said about what I think. However, I think isolation and utter boredom are quite appropriate for people who have raped a child or murdered someone. Throw 'em away. If they want to off themselves as the alternative, let them.

acronos

I don't think insanity is an appropriate defense. All criminals are somewhat insane.

I wish we would do away with our current jail system. I want all prison terms to be served out in insane asylums.

In the current system a high percentage, like 30%, of the inmates are raped in jail by other inmates and guards. Current jails reinforce the survival of the brutal mentality. Those who rape are less likely to be raped. Those who beat other prisoners up earn respect, money, drugs, and sexual release. The more violent criminals have little to loose and much to gain by abusing petty criminals. I know that most prisons separate prisoners by the severity of their crimes, but in any cell block there is a large gap between the most brutal and least brutal. This is a breeding ground for even greater violence upon release. The vast majority of prisoners are released back into society.

Why do I think the asylums will be any better? Because I believe there is usually a significant difference in motivation between someone who chooses to go into psychology for a living and someone who chooses the career of prison guard. I think an asylum would be more motivated toward correction and less toward punishment.

To answer the original question: I think all murders and rapists should serve life in an asylum if convicted. They have already proven themselves to be too great a danger to society. I also think murders and rapists should serve their sentences in completely separate prisons to protect other criminals from them and they should be carefully protected from each other. There should be a method of reporting abuse that is outside of the authority chain of the prison to eliminate the conflict of interest.

I also think the social stigmatism created by being forced to admit that you have been convicted of a crime should go away after a few years, maybe 10, after being released back into society.

abe smith

Several decades back my firstborn nephew, then in single digits, asked his Granny/our Mum, "Grandma, what shd they do w/ rapists?" & she answered "They shd be BOILED IN OIL." I guess / no not-guess... I'll go with that.

Nu

Today I think all rapists and murderers should be shot.

Tomorrow I will think all rapists and murderers should be praised and all non-rapists and non-murderers shot.

Can you find the tactful message?

tronvillain

That the years you spend smothered in Christianity have apparently prevented you from developing a morality of your own? Yes, that tactful message is clear enough. Don't worry though, you'll get over it, unless you lack the required emotions.

Infinity Lover

Imprisoned so they can't do any harm. But perhaps also studied better. Those people didn't become the way they are out of the blue. You don't learn how to prevent problems by purely eliminating them or wiping them under the rug.
Here's another question... how does the way we treat (child) rapist, or murderers reflect on us?
(Ask yourself that one as you read through the variaty of posts here )

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]</p>