Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ender · 04-16-2002, 05:45 PM

I concur, hinduwoman! My God is pure chaos, chance. I have no theistic sensibilities that it must be personal and at all concerned with my survival.

~WiGGiN~

DRFseven · 04-16-2002, 06:07 PM

SirenSpeak, why WOULD there be a god, for god's sake? I mean, really; why a god? Doesn't that seem a silly thing to think there might be; a big, bossy force that thinks and plans? Since you don't know, why would you think there might be one instead of that there might NOT be one?

Pseudonymph · 04-16-2002, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DRFseven:
<strong>SirenSpeak, why WOULD there be a god, for god's sake? I mean, really; why a god? Doesn't that seem a silly thing to think there might be; a big, bossy force that thinks and plans? Since you don't know, why would you think there might be one instead of that there might NOT be one?</strong>

Why would there? I certainly dont know...I believe that NONE of us know for sure.
I've already said that if it DOES think and plan, it sure is beyond me as to why and how etc.
So I cant really answer your questions...

Goliath · 04-16-2002, 07:29 PM

Sirenspeak,

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It's easy when you think about it like this. Dont think about it as a lack of belief, but more a choice I made(to disbelieve in God) I now doubt my CHOICE. I now am begginning to wonder...

Fair enough.

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isnt that agnostisism? Atheists say "I do not believe" and the way I see it, assuming God exists, we would know little, if anything about him.

Agnostics make the claim that it is impossible to know whether or not any god exists. There are theistic agnostics and atheistic agnostics.

There are two flavors of atheists: strong atheists positively believe that no god exists. Weak atheists do not believe that any god exists.

Read those last two sentences atleast two or three times. Absorb their meaning. There is a universe of difference between saying that you believe something doesn't exist, and saying that you don't believe that something exists.

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Me too...sort of. If you want my honest opinion(and I know you do )During this time in my life I have met many more hostile atheists than believers of any sort. Message boards, work, school, you name it. Even when I started leaning towards atheism I got a lot of support from people who believed in all sorts of things, christians too. I did lose a longtime friend though. And it used to make me sad till someone woke me up to the fact that "friends" like that dont matter and I can do better.
Arrogant christians? sure, but again I see more arrogant(seeming) atheists.

It's unfortunate that you've ran into so many hostile atheists. It's most definitely true that the property of being an asshole knows no gender, religious orientation, sexual orientation, or race (among many other things).

Consider the following two people:

1. A skeptic who lives a good life, and treats others kindly because he wants to. This skeptic does not try to actively deconvert xians, and tries to avoid flak from them in return. When asked "Where did life as we know it come from?" He responds with "I don't know for certain."

2. A xian who spends his life doing missionary work and constantly tries to convert others. He preaches brimstone and hellfire, threatening others with the torment of hell if they don't bow down NOW and repent! When asked "Where did life as we know it come from?" he will not only claim to have an answer, but will condemn anyone and everyone else who thinks differently.

Who is the more arrogant person? Why?

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I so wish I had never said that....at that time I had a point I wanted to make, but in pure me fashion, I butchered it in the transfer from thoughts to words.

Fair enough.

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Here I must disagree. The examples you cited do not apply because they are agents that you understand and can see for yourself. What I meant was that most people dont like the idea of having something they do not understand have authority over them.

Sorry for misreading. However, I still don't necessarily have a problem with something I don't understand having power over me. You are therefore still demonstrably wrong.

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??? isnt that what dismissing is?
or at least justifying no beliefs?

This is perhaps a semantics issue, but, IMO, to dismiss something requires acknowledging that said thing exists first.

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Right but you can EXPLAIN gravity, see?

Holy shit! I can explain gravity?!?!?! Move over Feynman! Outta the way, Einstein! Nobel Prize, here I come!!!!

Seriously though, we (humans) are still figuring out gravity, and we have a loooong freaking way to go.

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so therefore, you have "control over it."

Of course I don't have control over gravity. If I did, then I'd simply reverse gravity in a small shell around myself so that I could fly to wherever I wanted to go rather than walk or drive a car.

Sincerely,

Goliath

DRFseven · 04-17-2002, 11:04 AM

Quote:

SirenSpeak: Why would there? I certainly dont know...I believe that NONE of us know for sure.
I've already said that if it DOES think and plan, it sure is beyond me as to why and how etc.
So I cant really answer your questions...

Right; none of have any idea of why there appears to be something instead of nothing. So, you're thinking, maybe, then, a god did it, right? How come you think that?

Pseudonymph · 04-17-2002, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally:
<strong>Goliath: How can I, as an atheist, "dismiss" something I don't believe to exist?

Miss Siren: ??? isnt that what dismissing is?
or at least justifying no beliefs?

Ms Kally: Why would a person with no beliefs need to justify having no beliefs? Could you explain that? I don't understand. I've never felt any need to justify things that I consider myths. (Santa, God, etc.)</strong>

Kally, sorry I havent replied before now!

The way I see it, the need to justify no beliefs gives us a more comfortable feeling about WHY we dont believe it. Dont you feel you need reasons to not believe? You must because surely you explain your atheism to people when they ask.

I dont believe in santa clause because he never brought me any good shit for christmas...heh

seriously though, I dont belive in santa etc. because I see the rediculousness(god awful spelling)of such a character. Thats how I justify it, see?

i want to see the craziness of god too, but I dont think I can use that to justify my non belief anymore.

Hope that helps
peace

DRFseven · 04-17-2002, 12:53 PM

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SirenSpeak: seriously though, I dont belive in santa etc. because I see the rediculousness(god awful spelling)of such a character. Thats how I justify it, see?

i want to see the craziness of god too, but I dont think I can use that to justify my non belief anymore.

You stop just short of the explanation. You see the ridiculousness of Santa; therefore you don't believe in it. However, the ridiculousness of the god concept does not cause the same disbelief. Why not; that's what's missing in your explanation. Are you saying the god concept does not seem so ridiculous to you as the Santa one? Again, why not?

Also, I notice you said you "want to" see the craziness of god, too. Why do you phrase it that way, that you "want to?" <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

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04-16-2002, 05:45 PM	#51
Ender Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Lusitania Colony Posts: 658	I concur, hinduwoman! My God is pure chaos, chance. I have no theistic sensibilities that it must be personal and at all concerned with my survival. ~WiGGiN~

04-16-2002, 06:07 PM	#52
DRFseven Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,322	SirenSpeak, why WOULD there be a god, for god's sake? I mean, really; why a god? Doesn't that seem a silly thing to think there might be; a big, bossy force that thinks and plans? Since you don't know, why would you think there might be one instead of that there might NOT be one?

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