Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 10-25-2002, 03:14 PM

I am 100% certain that the supernatural claims are false. Everything else is up for grabs; I am certain that the 35 or so gospels are fictions, but I am not certain as to the extent of their fictitiousness.

Why are you asking us this silly question? Gregg is quite right; for everyone here who is an atheist, we are pretty certain that the major claims of Christinanity are false.

HelenM · 10-25-2002, 03:25 PM

GeoTheo, people being uncomfortable with uncertainty sounds more like psychology than philosophy, with all due respect. I am interested in psychology but not especially in philosophy. I find human behavior fascinating...

K, yes, I had heard that you disbelieved in only one more God than me!

Psycho Economist, was this addressed to me? "I think you're trying to open the door for a Pascal's Wager argument."

I have no agenda beyond curiosity about how certain the nontheists here are that Christianity is not true.

take care
Helen

HelenM · 10-25-2002, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:
Why are you asking us this silly question?

Because I'm silly? I don't know. I was just curious to see what people would say about how certain they are.

Quote:

Gregg is quite right; for everyone here who is an atheist, we are pretty certain that the major claims of Christinanity are false.

Yes, but he made a distinction between 99% and 100% certain, saying he thought most people wre 99% and not 100%.

I realize that both amount to 'pretty certain', if that was your point. I.e. neither indicate substantial doubt. But I wanted to know whether people think it's impossible that Christianity is true, or very unlikely but not impossible.

take care
Helen

sighhswolf · 10-25-2002, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM:
On another thread, Gregg wrote: "I don't think very many people on this board would say that they are 100% sure that Christianity is not true. 99% sure, perhaps, but not 100%"

To those who believe Christianity is not true - are you 100% sure?

Helen

Helen,
I am 100% sure in my mind that "Christianity" is not based on the true image and convictions of the Jewish Spiritualist/Rabbi named Jesus as he was presented in the NT gospels.
And that Christianity as it was conceived and developed by the early church fathers is not unique and bears the mark of heavy editorializing
and moralizing of ambitious men, not necessarily
pious men.
Wolf

Debbie T · 10-25-2002, 05:45 PM

I am 100% sure that Christianity is based on lies. So many lies that I was spoon fed as a child, that made me leave a religion based on lies. If it was truth there would be no need for lies, at the very least apologetics that stretch the truth to fit their brand of beliefs.

With so many denominations of Christianity and none of them can seem to agree is another reason I am 100% sure.

Thor Q. Mada · 10-25-2002, 06:05 PM

As an ex-xian, I am 100% sure that the xian doctrine is false, and made-up of lies from the dark past.
Its only reason for existence lies in the fear of people for the unknown, cleverly used by the power that are to re-enforce their grip on the masses.
It is opium for the people has no other purpose that its self protection.
It is reactionary, and resists changes of any kind. If mankind wants to go further than it is now, this religion and all the others have to be abolished, publicly shamed and laughed with.
There is no afterlife, and we don't need it. We don't need the stupid hocus-pocus, more than we need other aberrations such as santa claus, halloween, bar mitzvah and buddha's birthday. All meaningless relics from a bygone and ugly past from people sitting scared around campfires, in a time where a simple ear infection would kill you.
What a sick joke!!

schu · 10-25-2002, 06:06 PM

Well, if a resurrection and a sky daddy are requirements for belief in xianity then yes, I'm 100% sure it isn't true.

We have grown up seemingly relational people around here who think they are going bodily to some place up in the sky they call heaven. Now that is just plain crazy in my book.

I can see how someone can be a salad bar, marshmallow kind of xian by ignoring all the supernatural, but to claim to believe impossible things seems to me to require one to abdicate their reason.

Is this what you where looking for?

Schu

Ronin · 10-25-2002, 11:00 PM

I have no agenda beyond curiosity about how certain the nontheists here are that Christianity is not true.

HelenM ~ Christianity is a collection of fables competely and utterly enmeshed in supernaturalism.

Supernaturalism ~ of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe.

I am 100% sure that these events are pure nonsense and not an accurate representation of reality.

Let me know if your version of Christianity at your church does not promote an indestructable alien master (protagonist), a wicked superhuman trickster (antagonist), resurrection, walking on water, talking animals, sticks turning into snakes, humans living in whales, winged fairies, virgin births, healing touch, fortune telling, wizardry, necromancy, devil possession and other such fairy tales.

I will be quite pleased to keep an open mind in order to assess any new information that there exists a version of Christianity that does not assert such fables as factual occurrences.

Right now, I have not found one to exist.

Again, that is why one needs unconditional 'faith' to 'believe' in the tales of Christianity.

So, one does have to suspend or substantially and intentionally limit their ability to think critically in order assert that Christianity is true.

Therein lies the difference between Christians staunchly 'believing' in the pretense of the religion, which is founded inseparably in supernaturalism, and non-theists which constantly strive for real evidence.

Defiant Heretic · 10-26-2002, 12:19 AM

I am 100% sure that the god of the bible does not exist. It contradicts itself; therefore it cannot be completely true.

Although I am not 100% sure that no god exists, I think the probability of a revealed religion being correct is infinitesimal.
The odds of a deistic religion being correct are slightly higher.

Buffman · 10-26-2002, 12:22 AM

I am 100% sure that humans are evolutionary primates.

I am 100% sure that all living things eventually die.

I am 100% sure that no supernatural worlds exists beyond the ones created in and from the minds of humans.

I am 100% sure that the Christian God has a belly button.

I am only 50% sure that that last statement was stupid; but I'm 100% sure that this topic string is.

(Sorry, Helen. That's my opinion.)

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10-25-2002, 03:14 PM	#21
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	I am 100% certain that the supernatural claims are false. Everything else is up for grabs; I am certain that the 35 or so gospels are fictions, but I am not certain as to the extent of their fictitiousness. Why are you asking us this silly question? Gregg is quite right; for everyone here who is an atheist, we are pretty certain that the major claims of Christinanity are false.

10-25-2002, 03:25 PM	#22
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	GeoTheo, people being uncomfortable with uncertainty sounds more like psychology than philosophy, with all due respect. I am interested in psychology but not especially in philosophy. I find human behavior fascinating... K, yes, I had heard that you disbelieved in only one more God than me! Psycho Economist, was this addressed to me? "I think you're trying to open the door for a Pascal's Wager argument." I have no agenda beyond curiosity about how certain the nontheists here are that Christianity is not true. take care Helen

10-25-2002, 05:45 PM	#25
Debbie T Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Washington the state Posts: 406	I am 100% sure that Christianity is based on lies. So many lies that I was spoon fed as a child, that made me leave a religion based on lies. If it was truth there would be no need for lies, at the very least apologetics that stretch the truth to fit their brand of beliefs. With so many denominations of Christianity and none of them can seem to agree is another reason I am 100% sure.

10-25-2002, 06:05 PM	#26
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	As an ex-xian, I am 100% sure that the xian doctrine is false, and made-up of lies from the dark past. Its only reason for existence lies in the fear of people for the unknown, cleverly used by the power that are to re-enforce their grip on the masses. It is opium for the people has no other purpose that its self protection. It is reactionary, and resists changes of any kind. If mankind wants to go further than it is now, this religion and all the others have to be abolished, publicly shamed and laughed with. There is no afterlife, and we don't need it. We don't need the stupid hocus-pocus, more than we need other aberrations such as santa claus, halloween, bar mitzvah and buddha's birthday. All meaningless relics from a bygone and ugly past from people sitting scared around campfires, in a time where a simple ear infection would kill you. What a sick joke!!

10-25-2002, 06:06 PM	#27
schu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 707	Well, if a resurrection and a sky daddy are requirements for belief in xianity then yes, I'm 100% sure it isn't true. We have grown up seemingly relational people around here who think they are going bodily to some place up in the sky they call heaven. Now that is just plain crazy in my book. I can see how someone can be a salad bar, marshmallow kind of xian by ignoring all the supernatural, but to claim to believe impossible things seems to me to require one to abdicate their reason. Is this what you where looking for? Schu

10-25-2002, 11:00 PM	#28
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	I have no agenda beyond curiosity about how certain the nontheists here are that Christianity is not true. HelenM ~ Christianity is a collection of fables competely and utterly enmeshed in supernaturalism. Supernaturalism ~ of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe. I am 100% sure that these events are pure nonsense and not an accurate representation of reality. Let me know if your version of Christianity at your church does not promote an indestructable alien master (protagonist), a wicked superhuman trickster (antagonist), resurrection, walking on water, talking animals, sticks turning into snakes, humans living in whales, winged fairies, virgin births, healing touch, fortune telling, wizardry, necromancy, devil possession and other such fairy tales. I will be quite pleased to keep an open mind in order to assess any new information that there exists a version of Christianity that does not assert such fables as factual occurrences. Right now, I have not found one to exist. Again, that is why one needs unconditional 'faith' to 'believe' in the tales of Christianity. So, one does have to suspend or substantially and intentionally limit their ability to think critically in order assert that Christianity is true. Therein lies the difference between Christians staunchly 'believing' in the pretense of the religion, which is founded inseparably in supernaturalism, and non-theists which constantly strive for real evidence.

10-26-2002, 12:19 AM	#29
Defiant Heretic Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,288	I am 100% sure that the god of the bible does not exist. It contradicts itself; therefore it cannot be completely true. Although I am not 100% sure that no god exists, I think the probability of a revealed religion being correct is infinitesimal. The odds of a deistic religion being correct are slightly higher.

10-26-2002, 12:22 AM	#30
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	I am 100% sure that humans are evolutionary primates. I am 100% sure that all living things eventually die. I am 100% sure that no supernatural worlds exists beyond the ones created in and from the minds of humans. I am 100% sure that the Christian God has a belly button. I am only 50% sure that that last statement was stupid; but I'm 100% sure that this topic string is. (Sorry, Helen. That's my opinion.)

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