Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Selsaral · 08-14-2007, 11:13 AM

I don't see how fundamentalists (or even most liberals) would ever be content with or convert to a religion that conceives of God as nothing more than a concept.

Mageth · 08-14-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selsaral

I don't see how fundamentalists (or even most liberals) would ever be content with or convert to a religion that conceives of God as nothing more than a concept.

It becomes even more difficult if such a god-concept meets the requirements of a "god [that] empirical science and secular humanism, without contradicting their principles, [can] proclaim to exist". Such a god-concept would be of an irrelevant god.

figuer · 08-14-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

I admit that god exists as a concept, and I certainly don't proclaim a god to exist.

Although I understand the reasoning behind your position, it is noticeable that you are contradicting yourself. If you admit that god exists as a concept, then you proclaim the existence of this conceptual god. Being conceptual, this proclamation does not extend, initially, beyond the confines of the mind. Thus it does not imply the sanctioning of any particular conventional-external definition of a god.

figuer · 08-14-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

... Such a god-concept would be of an irrelevant god.

Not if it proves usefull as a motivational entity. Can not the wise devise such a god??

ughaibu · 08-14-2007, 11:28 AM

2000 years later Charles Manson said, or any other piece of conjecture in between. This is probably the most braindead thread I've yet seen on this site.

Mageth · 08-14-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

I admit that god exists as a concept, and I certainly don't proclaim a god to exist.

Although I understand the reasoning behind your position, it is noticeable that you are contradicting yourself.

Umm, no I am not. I admit the concept of god exists (taking the liberty to rephrase my statement for clarity, which does not change the intended meaning of the statement), but I do not proclaim a god to exist. There is no contradiction.

Quote:

If you admit that god exists as a concept, then you proclaim the existence of this conceptual god.

No; I proclaim the existence of the concept of god, not the existence of the "conceptual god", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

Quote:

Being conceptual, this proclamation does not extend, initially, beyond the confines of the mind.

???

Quote:

Thus it does not imply the sanctioning of any particular conventional-external definition of a god.

Correct. In other words, "I do not proclaim a god to exist". First you say I contradicted myself; now you're agreeing with me.

figuer · 08-14-2007, 11:57 AM

From another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordy

Apostate Abe tried something similar:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...ght=ideatheism

Quote:

Ideatheism
Not long ago I had a moment of clarity, a payoff from the years I spent engaging in the study of religion and atheist activism. I realized that the gods exist. They exist as ideas. They are the most powerful ideas that ever existed in the world. They are informational units that are at the central cores of religions, have changed billions of lives, inspired revolutions, elevated the greatest leaders, brought down the same leaders, led the arts and sciences, and directed the Zeitgeist of all humankind, for better or for worse.

So why should I keep calling myself an atheist? I have decided that it is misleading to call myself an atheist. There is no word that denotes my new perspective until I decided to invent one. I call it, "ideatheism."

An ideatheist is someone who believes that the gods exist mainly as ideas.

figuer · 08-14-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ughaibu

2000 years later Charles Manson said, or any other piece of conjecture in between. This is probably the most braindead thread I've yet seen on this site.

This is because you are unable to comprehend that god does not refer exclusively to the characters in the mythologies. Rather, god is a mental image that symbolises the relationship between self consciousness and the forces that structure the universe. It is the existence of this relationship that leads to the concept of god. This concept then leads to the various mythologies.

figuer · 08-14-2007, 12:43 PM

Some pages which help in comprehending aspects of analytical psychology - god as a concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_psychology

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/jung.html

http://www.iloveulove.com/psychology...archetypes.htm

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...8726-2,00.html

"The Self

The ultimate pattern is the Self. For Jung this is the God image. Human self and divine self are incapable of distinction. All is Spirit. Images of Spirit abound. .... Galahad achieving the Grail and ascending with it to Heaven is likewise an archetypal drama of Self. Lancelot's failure to achieve the Grail speaks of his failure to achieve the final discovery of Self."

figuer · 08-14-2007, 12:52 PM

The general discussion in this thread by user Amadeo contains some related conceptions:

The Greco-Roman Religion is the Only True Religion.
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=206411

08-14-2007, 12:43 PM	#19
figuer Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 7,984	Some pages which help in comprehending aspects of analytical psychology - god as a concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_psychology http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/jung.html http://www.iloveulove.com/psychology...archetypes.htm http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...8726-2,00.html "The Self The ultimate pattern is the Self. For Jung this is the God image. Human self and divine self are incapable of distinction. All is Spirit. Images of Spirit abound. .... Galahad achieving the Grail and ascending with it to Heaven is likewise an archetypal drama of Self. Lancelot's failure to achieve the Grail speaks of his failure to achieve the final discovery of Self."

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08-14-2007, 11:13 AM	#11
Selsaral Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Posts: 3,095	I don't see how fundamentalists (or even most liberals) would ever be content with or convert to a religion that conceives of God as nothing more than a concept.

08-14-2007, 11:28 AM	#15
ughaibu Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Japan Posts: 8,492	2000 years later Charles Manson said, or any other piece of conjecture in between. This is probably the most braindead thread I've yet seen on this site.

08-14-2007, 12:52 PM	#20
figuer Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 7,984	The general discussion in this thread by user Amadeo contains some related conceptions: The Greco-Roman Religion is the Only True Religion. http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=206411

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