I guess mystisism could be defined as experiences of an altered state of consciousness where the conscious mind is no longer in direct control.
I agree that it is only possible to investigate mystisism by experiencing it, but I do not agree that the only way to experience it is by intentional discipline and practice eg. meditation. I believe that mystical experiences can be a result of personal trauma, facing mortality, self reflection and activities in which there is swift and rythmic movement eg. martial arts, running, dancing, mountain climbing etc. As writer of The Joy of Sports- Michael Novak writes:
"This is one of the great inner secrets of sports. There is a certain point of unity within the self, and between the self and its world, a certain complicity and magnetic mating, a certain harmony, that conscious mind and will cannot direct...Command by instinct is swifter, subtler, deeper, more accurate, more in touch with reality than command by conscious mind. The discovery takes one's breath away."
I agree with Thinker that the issue of consciousness requires a lot further investigation and that in the exercise there was inconclusive evidence for the skeptic, the mystic had their evidence of experience and were therefore in a better position.
Maybe altered concsiousness relates to which side of the brain is being accessed? Anyone have any knowledge about this?

I think that definition is too vague.

That being said...

It's true that people have experiences that they are unable to describe later and the "feeling" had during these experiences tends to involves a lessening of our everyday material experiences. In particular these experiences tend to have a feeling of a lessening of the sense of "self" and a loss of "intention" as it relates to the self. Those experiences are what I would term "mystical."

You gave a sports example which I wholeheartedly agree might be "mystical" given the proper definition.

Why do they happen? What causes them?

DC

[This message has been edited by DChicken (edited May 10, 2001).]

Eastern mystics as in Vedanta, Buddhism, and Taoism maintain there is a unity to reality which is manifest clearly during meditative states. This is an ontological statement about the true nature of reality.

YES!

I do not meditate. Everything on your list are things I do a lot of (apart from martial arts). I seek answers in all things. It transcends language.

So what is special about these mystical experiences that neccessitates them being viewed as something more than just points in the continuum of mental states.

For instance the state of mind of a person at the moment of orgasm is certainly very altered from a usual state of mind, the person is no longer in direct control of his/her conscious processes, but 'taken over', similarly this state of mind could be said to 'transcend language', although I am not sure entirely sure what this means!

So what does this really tell us about reality that transcends outside measurement? Sure time may seem to be going quicker/ slower dependant on my state of mind, but so what? Why should this be a reflection of reality rather than a reflection of my inability to be accurate under certain circumstances?

I find it almost impossible to answer this because no verbal description can accurately describe what I mean. It is just another mental state, but it is a mental state that is qualitatively different from other mental states in a way that is not possible to describe. No more than I could hope describe the experience of taking DMT.

(Well I could try to describe either, but I would do so fully aware that my description would be hopelessly inadequate.)



[This message has been edited by thinker (edited May 11, 2001).]

Ps418:

DMT? For most people it would be ten minutes of terror. Just stick with psyilocybin. Much safer and easier to come by!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kachana:
[B]So what is special about these mystical experiences that neccessitates them being viewed as something more than just points in the continuum of mental states.

I would say they are pretty special if we were able to switch on to such experiences whenever we wished, such as some Monks and tribal cultures do. It would certainly be cheaper and easier than taking drugs or having an orgasm. Some eastern mystics say that it is true reality because we are experiencing 'being' without processing or judging thoughts. Maybe mystical experiences provide an opportunity for personal growth in all aspects of life.

It's rarity just adds a bit of spice. And yes there is an element of terror. It's in another league from psylocibin though. It doesn't just reconfigure the operating system - it wipes the hard disk and replaces it with alien technology.