Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The SwampThing · 04-15-2003, 05:32 PM

Up in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, the US troops opened fire on a crowd, killing 10 and injuring dozens of others...

The news, that can be read here , have overshadowed once again the supposed effort for Iraqi freedom.
If the iraqis cannot protest in the streets, and get killed for speaking out, what diference is there between Saddam�s dictatorship and the US dictatorship??
Where�s the freedom of speech that the americans raise so high a banner of? Aren�t the iraqis free to speak out?

http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_arti...d=3114&lang=en

This whole thing starts to stink...
I sniff a civil war coming, very fast.

Cap'n Jack · 04-15-2003, 05:47 PM

Great the ever reliable Russian news. The firing came from a building above the crowd, into and around the US soldiers. Draw your own conclusions from this.

The SwampThing · 04-15-2003, 09:03 PM

Hummm, again you post coments pointed to the source of the report...
Do you have anything against the russians? Or this particular site?
I don�t want to repeat myself more than i should, but there are other links on this story, if you doubt the russians so much.
Just check back Farren�s post on this thread
And in no site have i seen any mention of "firing coming from a building above the crowd", unless they were US snipers...
The crowd was not armed, they were only protesting the US presence. Like we have seen so many times, the US forces respond to any trouble with excessive force. They try to kill an ant with "carpet bombing"!!
And while this happens, more and more iraqis die, either of "collateral damage" or "not so friendly fire".
To me this sounds as repression. The US uses the same methods that they condemned Saddam for, wich makes them no diferent from Saddam�s regime.
If this is the way the US is going to "liberate" the iraqi people, i wonder how any one can be surprised by the iraqi�s response and attitude!! :banghead: :banghead:

JP2 · 04-15-2003, 09:09 PM

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...E25777,00.html

12 Dead 100 wounded? That must be some sniper.

The SwampThing · 04-15-2003, 09:33 PM

Good link, JP2 !
There seems to be a blackut concerning this event, in the western media. All we see is a small mention to the incident, but no real coverage of what happened...

Everytime the US troops do something bad, they always use the
plausable denyability as a means of diverting atentions. The same happened at the market bombings and at the checkpoint massacres.
The US oficials always deny, deny and deny some more!!

Acording to the witnesses, there were no snipers in any buildings.
Infact, it is current to see the troops deployed at rooftops and high windows when they want to secure an area, and that was the case in this incident. The US troops had made a perimeter around the place where Mashaan al-Juburi was talking to the crowd.If there were any soldiers on the roofs, it would have been american troops.
And besides, how come if there were infact shooters on the roofs, the people on the streets got hit???
Don�t they aim, before shooting? Or did the people on the streets got hit by bullits falling down to earth? (sarcasm)
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Happy Wonderer · 04-15-2003, 10:34 PM

I don't see it in CNN so it must not have happened...

(Actually, here is a link in the New York Times.)

Quote:

Outside the hospital, as an American jet roared a few hundred feet overhead and hospital workers glanced up fearfully, Dr. Ramadhani criticized American tactics. "This is terrorism!" he shouted, as the windows of the hospital rattled. "We are scared. What about the children? What about the sick people?"

A few feet away, an American Special Forces soldier guarding the hospital said Iraqis misunderstood American actions here. "The marines took fire and had to return it," he said. The low-flying planes, he said, were to deter attacks.

"It's a show of force, but people don't understand it," said the soldier, who did not want to be identified. "They're not grateful."

The ingrates! Don't they realize we have been dropping our best bombs on them. Do they have any idea how much one of those cluster bombs costs?

hw

Edit: thanks for finding this, that is the power of a forum!

The SwampThing · 04-16-2003, 12:28 AM

Hey, acording to the US spokesman, the marines were fired upon from the top of a building and retutned fire...
But this article of the New York Times says it diferentlly. So, what�s it gonna be? The "snipers" were in the roof or amongst the crowd???
IS
Acording to the Herald Sun:
"A military spokesman in Mosul described the shooting, saying: "There were protesters outside (the government offices), 100 to 150. There was fire. We returned fire."
He said the gunfire came from a roof opposite the building, about 75 metres away.
"We didn't fire at the crowd, but at the top of the building," the spokesman stressed.
"There were at least two gunmen. I don't know if they were killed. The firing was not intensive but sporadic, and lasted up to two minutes." He said."
OR
Acording to the New York Times:
" Later, men in the crowd started shooting, and the marines withdrew into the building but continued to receive fire, Colonel Frick said. After the marines fired warning shots, most of the people dispersed, the colonel said. But when shots continued to hit the building, Colonel Frick said, "the marines said, `O.K., the fight is on,' " and they returned fire."

So, what�s it gonna be? Wich story do they stick to?
Do they even comunicate between themselfs?
And how does a "sporadic" shooting causes 10 dead and dozens of injured????
It sounds to me they opened up with machine guns, straight into the thick of the crowd...

No matter who started, the marines are guilty of excessive force and similarly to other incidents, no one will get punished...

VonEvilstein · 04-16-2003, 07:05 AM

My highly cynical mind suggests that this kind of incident is largely why the Court of King George is so opposed to the ICC...

By the way, the story was all over the Dutch papers this morning.

Happy Wonderer · 04-16-2003, 11:38 AM

Troops working to calm mosul

I freaking kid you not! That is the headline here in the US on CNN. Here is the latest version of the story:

Quote:

Brooks said that the Marines opened fire only after taking fire from gunmen in the crowd.

"Fire was directed at the Marines and Special Operations forces in this complex," Brooks said at a briefing Wednesday. "It was aimed fire, and aimed fire was returned against some of the demonstrators, against some of the agitated persons who were now climbing over the wall of the compound."

So now we were shooting at people climbing over the wall of the compound, not against snipers on a rooftop.

hw

JP2 · 04-17-2003, 12:15 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2951789.stm

They've admitted to it now.

04-15-2003, 05:32 PM	#1
The SwampThing Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 249	US troops open fire on protesting crowd and kill at least 10... Up in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, the US troops opened fire on a crowd, killing 10 and injuring dozens of others... The news, that can be read here , have overshadowed once again the supposed effort for Iraqi freedom. If the iraqis cannot protest in the streets, and get killed for speaking out, what diference is there between Saddam�s dictatorship and the US dictatorship?? Where�s the freedom of speech that the americans raise so high a banner of? Aren�t the iraqis free to speak out? http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_arti...d=3114&lang=en This whole thing starts to stink... I sniff a civil war coming, very fast.

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04-15-2003, 05:47 PM	#2
Cap'n Jack Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 133	Great the ever reliable Russian news. The firing came from a building above the crowd, into and around the US soldiers. Draw your own conclusions from this.

04-15-2003, 09:03 PM	#3
The SwampThing Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 249	Hummm, again you post coments pointed to the source of the report... Do you have anything against the russians? Or this particular site? I don�t want to repeat myself more than i should, but there are other links on this story, if you doubt the russians so much. Just check back Farren�s post on this thread And in no site have i seen any mention of "firing coming from a building above the crowd", unless they were US snipers... The crowd was not armed, they were only protesting the US presence. Like we have seen so many times, the US forces respond to any trouble with excessive force. They try to kill an ant with "carpet bombing"!! And while this happens, more and more iraqis die, either of "collateral damage" or "not so friendly fire". To me this sounds as repression. The US uses the same methods that they condemned Saddam for, wich makes them no diferent from Saddam�s regime. If this is the way the US is going to "liberate" the iraqi people, i wonder how any one can be surprised by the iraqi�s response and attitude!! :banghead: :banghead:

04-15-2003, 09:09 PM	#4
JP2 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 204	http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...E25777,00.html 12 Dead 100 wounded? That must be some sniper.

04-15-2003, 09:33 PM	#5
The SwampThing Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 249	Good link, JP2 ! There seems to be a blackut concerning this event, in the western media. All we see is a small mention to the incident, but no real coverage of what happened... Everytime the US troops do something bad, they always use the plausable denyability as a means of diverting atentions. The same happened at the market bombings and at the checkpoint massacres. The US oficials always deny, deny and deny some more!! Acording to the witnesses, there were no snipers in any buildings. Infact, it is current to see the troops deployed at rooftops and high windows when they want to secure an area, and that was the case in this incident. The US troops had made a perimeter around the place where Mashaan al-Juburi was talking to the crowd.If there were any soldiers on the roofs, it would have been american troops. And besides, how come if there were infact shooters on the roofs, the people on the streets got hit??? Don�t they aim, before shooting? Or did the people on the streets got hit by bullits falling down to earth? (sarcasm) :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

04-16-2003, 12:28 AM	#7
The SwampThing Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portugal Posts: 249	Hey, acording to the US spokesman, the marines were fired upon from the top of a building and retutned fire... But this article of the New York Times says it diferentlly. So, what�s it gonna be? The "snipers" were in the roof or amongst the crowd??? IS Acording to the Herald Sun: "A military spokesman in Mosul described the shooting, saying: "There were protesters outside (the government offices), 100 to 150. There was fire. We returned fire." He said the gunfire came from a roof opposite the building, about 75 metres away. "We didn't fire at the crowd, but at the top of the building," the spokesman stressed. "There were at least two gunmen. I don't know if they were killed. The firing was not intensive but sporadic, and lasted up to two minutes." He said." OR Acording to the New York Times: " Later, men in the crowd started shooting, and the marines withdrew into the building but continued to receive fire, Colonel Frick said. After the marines fired warning shots, most of the people dispersed, the colonel said. But when shots continued to hit the building, Colonel Frick said, "the marines said, `O.K., the fight is on,' " and they returned fire." So, what�s it gonna be? Wich story do they stick to? Do they even comunicate between themselfs? And how does a "sporadic" shooting causes 10 dead and dozens of injured???? It sounds to me they opened up with machine guns, straight into the thick of the crowd... No matter who started, the marines are guilty of excessive force and similarly to other incidents, no one will get punished...

04-16-2003, 07:05 AM	#8
VonEvilstein Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: .nl Posts: 822	My highly cynical mind suggests that this kind of incident is largely why the Court of King George is so opposed to the ICC... By the way, the story was all over the Dutch papers this morning.

04-17-2003, 12:15 AM	#10
JP2 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 204	http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2951789.stm They've admitted to it now.

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